7 ms·

Music streaming service SoundCloud tunes up for sale

90 points by joshbuddy 3y ago

lakomen 3y ago
Enshittification is the word of the year 2023. I wonder how enshittifed SoundCloud will become (it pretty much already is, but there's room for more). Who will buy it? Who would? Technically it's great IMHO. But when someone pays 1 billion currency they will want to extract at least the same amount out of this service.
- xz18r 3y ago
  It isn't nearly as enshittified as many other products that get that label. Sure, you can get an "ad-free listening experience for a cups of coffee per month", but the experience as a free-plan listener _and_ free-plan uploader is nowhere near as bad as most of its competition. Dubious source: I am both.
- pluc 3y ago
  Their API and developer support is atrocious. Their dev team has been like two people for the last 5 years.
pmarreck 3y ago
I've been a big fan of them forever and have had the paid version for years. It's one of the few (if any) legit places to get good remixes of songs (I've literally been a fan of remixes since 1982 when I was 10 and heard the "extended" version of "Don't You Want Me" by Human League for the first time, lol... just noticed that someone remixed this song AGAIN just 2 years ago and it's pretty good: https://soundcloud.com/thehumanleagueofficial/dont-you-want-me-purple-disco https://soundcloud.com/thehumanleagueofficial/dont-you-want-...), and one of the few places I know of to upload your own music and audio attempts in a broadly consumable format. Shameless plug, my guided meditation that I made entirely via AI using Ralph Ineson's voice (he played a bit part in Game of Thrones and is also Lorath's voice in Diablo 4) and which to date is one of the only things that has given me what I'll remotely term a "spiritual experience" https://soundcloud.com/peter-marreck-fb/simple-meditation-ai-ralph-ineson-oobe-deep-trance-music?in=peter-marreck-fb/sets/meditation https://soundcloud.com/peter-marreck-fb/simple-meditation-ai...
- rafaelgoncalves 3y ago
  nice remix, thanks for sharing! And the soundcloud has been limited on some countries, eg., here in Brazil where i live i could not listen the remix on soundcloud but they no issues on youtube and spotify for example.
IlPeach 3y ago
aw damn, that's why I haven't heard back from them for a position I was applying for :(
felixbraun 3y ago
Recent article with more details about the current state of Soundcloud – ("achieved eight consecutive months of profitability"): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-chasing-annual-profitability-soundclouds-already-there/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-chasing-annua...
xnx 3y ago
YouTube wouldn't be the worst company to acquire SoundCloud. YouTube is already trying to gain some mind/market-share from Spotify. YouTube is already home to lots of non-label music and remixes and has most (all?) of the social/commenting features that SoundCloud has.
- tempodox 3y ago
  Oh no!
- Andrex 3y ago
  In theory, yes. But any IRL attempt to merge the two platforms would probably be a technical nightmare and inspire several user revolts. Not sure it'd be worth it to YouTube.
- AuthError 3y ago
  I think you are thinking from soundcloud's perspective, i dont see how this would actually benefit youtube other than just throwing some stuff on the wall and expecting it to stick
  - xnx 3y ago
    Spotify is #1 in music streaming, but SoundCloud is well regarded. For the right price, YouTube Music could get some headlines/exposure and credibility through the acquisition.
doublerabbit 3y ago
First bandcamp and now soundcloud. It's looking bleak for music services. I use soundcloud as my sole music provider.
- jasonjayr 3y ago
  I'm in the same boat. I don't even care about the ads from SoundCloud, even if they are repetitive, there's a lot of genres of music I enjoy that seem to have an epicenter on SoundCloud that I have not been able to find elsewhere, that's as easy to listen to + discover.
- alisonatwork 3y ago
  I don't really see a decline in Bandcamp yet. It was great when it launched and is still great today, regardless of its current ownership. I'm surprised people still stuck with SoundCloud, to be honest, especially after they betrayed the very DJs and producers who had made the service popular in the first place. I canceled my paid account ~10 years ago and never looked back.
  - PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
    Yeah, agreed on thus-far-lack-of-decline for Bandcamp. However, always important to note that there are different POVs on such things: * customers * musicians * employees * partners I only know that I see no change as a customer, have not been notified of changes as a musician, and sense that it's probably worse for employees.
  - leotravis10 3y ago
    I'm sure the decline is coming eventually and folks need to be ready for that at anytime. The dust hasn't truly settled yet.
  - chimeracoder 3y ago
    > I don't really see a decline in Bandcamp yet. It was great when it launched and is still great today, regardless of its current ownership. It's only been a couple of months since the sale[0]. They've already shut down a couple of features/services that Bandcamp previously had, as part of the layoffs which "just happened" to cover every single member of the union's bargaining team (and nearly all members of the bargaining unit). You're not necessarily going to see the full effects of a change like that so immediately. It's too early to say what will actually happen beyond that, though signs aren't good. [0] The Songtradr sale is the more significant of the two, because Epic only purchased Bandcamp in order to improve their legal standing for their otherwise-unrelated suit against Google. Now that that's not an issue, they sold it to Songtradr which is by far the more worrisome owner.
naltroc 3y ago
Longtime soundcloud user here (creator and consumer, pro subscriber). Not excited about this news but also a good time to share about Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/ https://www.mixcloud.com/ This site has shockingly few ads (feels like one per week) and lets you stream complete mixes. You won't find single tracks here. For most music consumers though, mixes are probably what you didn't know you needed anyway.
- throwaway290 3y ago
  How about producers?
  - CrypticShift 3y ago
    Mixcloud fingerprints audio to pay royalties to the artists whose tracks get played [1] (if that's what you're asking) [1] https://www.mixcloud.com/mixcloud/posts/how-we-pay-creators-and-why-we-do-it/ https://www.mixcloud.com/mixcloud/posts/how-we-pay-creators-...
    - throwaway290 3y ago
      No it's just super easy and free to post on SC, that's all. Now that you mention fingerprinting, it could be good if it means musicians can sample without fear or bad if original musicians get false positives from the algorithm.
- drcongo 3y ago
  I love Mixcloud (creator, heavy consumer, and pro subscriber). I never really understood the USP of SoundCloud, for mixes Mixcloud beats it hands down, for single tracks audio.com beats it all ends up despite being very beta. SoundCloud's USP seems to be "it's just about bearable to use in place of audio.com and mixcloud".
  - i_am_jl 3y ago
    I was a SoundCloud subscriber for a few years until mid '19. Back then the value prop was music discovery + streaming access to artists who weren't on other platforms. But I don't see any evidence of growth. Other platforms have stepped up their music discovery tools and broadened their catalogs. I ended up dropping the subscription because they didn't support Android Auto and said they had no plans to (in their defense, they introduced support in mid-2021). It very much feels like SoundCloud was first to the space (were they? surely someone else did "YouTube but music" first) and have been riding that out.
jorvi 3y ago
Just logged into my dormant SoundCloud to check the activity of a bunch of friends and acquaintances. Looks like most user activity (liking tracks, add to playlist, etc) steeply dropped off ~13-11 years ago, and I see virtually no one active after ~7 years ago. Not sure what the cause of that is..
- alisonatwork 3y ago
  They tried to win the mainstream audience and failed because the mainstream went to Spotify instead. But by selling out to the majors they also hurt the underground artists and producers that built the site's indie cred in the first place. There was a good article a few years back on The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/21/15999172/soundcloud-business-model-future-spotify-streaming https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/21/15999172/soundcloud-busin... I guess since then the platform saw some success as a home for lo-fi hip-hop, so it seems a new generation of youngsters have gotten something out of it. Good for them. For electronic music I think we mostly went to Bandcamp and Mixcloud, especially when Beatport sold out too.
brodock 3y ago
It's amazing how SoundCloud had "everything" and they threw away. They had the unique Indy artists, they had the DJs and music producers, and they opted to move to compete with Spotify on a money loosing bet, without putting the effort to build the Player in at least every single platform supported. They did even more harm to themselves by blocking open source players that were doing "their work for free". If there is one big mistake they did early on was to block API access. The other one was to bet on "record labels contract" rather then becoming the source for Originals.
- wholelotta 3y ago
  All these web companies ran on gatekeeping their data to employ frontend teams. They look even more valuable to the financiers seeking to keep the aggregate busy so they don’t have time to focus on the expropriation of their labor and deflation of their buying power. But it’s a terrible long term strategy as it cuts off the group who would pay for API access only. But also a community of frontend first users who don’t care about APIs but design and functionality that works for them, means frontend first users jump to the next company with a frontend. If there was an API fee and key, and open frontends of various styles, Sooundcloud wins. There are API only streamers out there but they tend to focus on serving big tech. Apple I know specifies quality levels but actually passes some streaming requests along to wholesaler backends that deal with all the API and licensing crap for them.
- peterlk 3y ago
  There is nothing in the world that is as good as soundcloud was in 2012. It wasn’t scalable at that time, but it was an incredible melting pot of discoverability. I used to spend a lot of time on a site called CitySounds (it no longer exists) that was a geofenced soundcloud firehose. It allowed me to listen to the latest music from bedroom DJs in Sao Paulo or a live polka band from Vienna or a Russian children’s recital. Most of it was garbage, but it was diverse and interesting garbage, and that made it compelling to me. At the time, I ran a radio show, and being able to connect with a high school kid in Italy who was making cool hip hop beats was a way more meaningful human experience than playing another Pitbull track. And I think our listeners appreciated it too. It was as close as the world could practically get to copy-left, remix culture, and they threw it away because the founders lacked guts or vision or both, and the company was taken over by people who believe in a homogenized distribution model. It hurts my soul that we don’t have tools like old soundcloud - with the exception of last.fm, which keeps holding on. Last year, I would have said that bandcamp is carrying the torch, but I don’t think that’s true any more… perhaps the fediverse has an opportunity to step in here… perhaps we just need a new crop of founders who believe in a world full of diverse musical culture. Edit: I'll also add that the world lost an amazing tool when Echonest was bought. It would have been so cool to see that product blossom into a platform for general purpose music production and discovery. But instead, we get access to a nerfed version locked behind Spotify's API
pjmlp 3y ago
Yet another opportunity to remind buying physical media is still an option.
- sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
  SoundCloud was specifically good to find artists who didn’t exist on physical yet. That’s kinda the whole point of it, or was supposed to be before they lost their way.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Strangely enough YouTube, Vevo, Twitter have been my sources all these years, alongside indie concerts in small clubs.
- seanw444 3y ago
  I absolutely would not have discovered the bands I listen to all the time today if I stuck to physical media. The strength of these services is discovery. But yes, if you can obtain physical copies, that would be a good idea. I should probably start doing that.
thinkmassive 3y ago
It was great for a time. At least Prometheus lives on! https://developers.soundcloud.com/blog/prometheus-monitoring-at-soundcloud https://developers.soundcloud.com/blog/prometheus-monitoring...

90 points by joshbuddy 3y ago

Enshittification is the word of the year 2023. I wonder how enshittifed SoundCloud will become (it pretty much already is, but there's room for more). Who will buy it? Who would? Technically it's great IMHO. But when someone pays 1 billion currency they will want to extract at least the same amount out of this service.

xz18r 3y ago
It isn't nearly as enshittified as many other products that get that label. Sure, you can get an "ad-free listening experience for a cups of coffee per month", but the experience as a free-plan listener _and_ free-plan uploader is nowhere near as bad as most of its competition. Dubious source: I am both.
pluc 3y ago
Their API and developer support is atrocious. Their dev team has been like two people for the last 5 years.

pmarreck 3y ago

I've been a big fan of them forever and have had the paid version for years. It's one of the few (if any) legit places to get good remixes of songs (I've literally been a fan of remixes since 1982 when I was 10 and heard the "extended" version of "Don't You Want Me" by Human League for the first time, lol... just noticed that someone remixed this song AGAIN just 2 years ago and it's pretty good: https://soundcloud.com/thehumanleagueofficial/dont-you-want-me-purple-disco https://soundcloud.com/thehumanleagueofficial/dont-you-want-...), and one of the few places I know of to upload your own music and audio attempts in a broadly consumable format. Shameless plug, my guided meditation that I made entirely via AI using Ralph Ineson's voice (he played a bit part in Game of Thrones and is also Lorath's voice in Diablo 4) and which to date is one of the only things that has given me what I'll remotely term a "spiritual experience" https://soundcloud.com/peter-marreck-fb/simple-meditation-ai-ralph-ineson-oobe-deep-trance-music?in=peter-marreck-fb/sets/meditation https://soundcloud.com/peter-marreck-fb/simple-meditation-ai...

rafaelgoncalves 3y ago
nice remix, thanks for sharing! And the soundcloud has been limited on some countries, eg., here in Brazil where i live i could not listen the remix on soundcloud but they no issues on youtube and spotify for example.

IlPeach 3y ago

aw damn, that's why I haven't heard back from them for a position I was applying for :(

felixbraun 3y ago

Recent article with more details about the current state of Soundcloud – ("achieved eight consecutive months of profitability"): https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-chasing-annual-profitability-soundclouds-already-there/ https://www.musicbusinessworldwide.com/spotify-chasing-annua...

xnx 3y ago

YouTube wouldn't be the worst company to acquire SoundCloud. YouTube is already trying to gain some mind/market-share from Spotify. YouTube is already home to lots of non-label music and remixes and has most (all?) of the social/commenting features that SoundCloud has.

tempodox 3y ago
Oh no!
Andrex 3y ago
In theory, yes. But any IRL attempt to merge the two platforms would probably be a technical nightmare and inspire several user revolts. Not sure it'd be worth it to YouTube.
AuthError 3y ago
I think you are thinking from soundcloud's perspective, i dont see how this would actually benefit youtube other than just throwing some stuff on the wall and expecting it to stick
- xnx 3y ago
  Spotify is #1 in music streaming, but SoundCloud is well regarded. For the right price, YouTube Music could get some headlines/exposure and credibility through the acquisition.

doublerabbit 3y ago

First bandcamp and now soundcloud. It's looking bleak for music services. I use soundcloud as my sole music provider.

jasonjayr 3y ago
I'm in the same boat. I don't even care about the ads from SoundCloud, even if they are repetitive, there's a lot of genres of music I enjoy that seem to have an epicenter on SoundCloud that I have not been able to find elsewhere, that's as easy to listen to + discover.
alisonatwork 3y ago
I don't really see a decline in Bandcamp yet. It was great when it launched and is still great today, regardless of its current ownership. I'm surprised people still stuck with SoundCloud, to be honest, especially after they betrayed the very DJs and producers who had made the service popular in the first place. I canceled my paid account ~10 years ago and never looked back.
- PaulDavisThe1st 3y ago
  Yeah, agreed on thus-far-lack-of-decline for Bandcamp. However, always important to note that there are different POVs on such things: * customers * musicians * employees * partners I only know that I see no change as a customer, have not been notified of changes as a musician, and sense that it's probably worse for employees.
- leotravis10 3y ago
  I'm sure the decline is coming eventually and folks need to be ready for that at anytime. The dust hasn't truly settled yet.
- chimeracoder 3y ago
  > I don't really see a decline in Bandcamp yet. It was great when it launched and is still great today, regardless of its current ownership. It's only been a couple of months since the sale[0]. They've already shut down a couple of features/services that Bandcamp previously had, as part of the layoffs which "just happened" to cover every single member of the union's bargaining team (and nearly all members of the bargaining unit). You're not necessarily going to see the full effects of a change like that so immediately. It's too early to say what will actually happen beyond that, though signs aren't good. [0] The Songtradr sale is the more significant of the two, because Epic only purchased Bandcamp in order to improve their legal standing for their otherwise-unrelated suit against Google. Now that that's not an issue, they sold it to Songtradr which is by far the more worrisome owner.

naltroc 3y ago

Longtime soundcloud user here (creator and consumer, pro subscriber). Not excited about this news but also a good time to share about Mixcloud: https://www.mixcloud.com/ https://www.mixcloud.com/ This site has shockingly few ads (feels like one per week) and lets you stream complete mixes. You won't find single tracks here. For most music consumers though, mixes are probably what you didn't know you needed anyway.

throwaway290 3y ago
How about producers?
- CrypticShift 3y ago
  Mixcloud fingerprints audio to pay royalties to the artists whose tracks get played [1] (if that's what you're asking) [1] https://www.mixcloud.com/mixcloud/posts/how-we-pay-creators-and-why-we-do-it/ https://www.mixcloud.com/mixcloud/posts/how-we-pay-creators-...
  - throwaway290 3y ago
    No it's just super easy and free to post on SC, that's all. Now that you mention fingerprinting, it could be good if it means musicians can sample without fear or bad if original musicians get false positives from the algorithm.
drcongo 3y ago
I love Mixcloud (creator, heavy consumer, and pro subscriber). I never really understood the USP of SoundCloud, for mixes Mixcloud beats it hands down, for single tracks audio.com beats it all ends up despite being very beta. SoundCloud's USP seems to be "it's just about bearable to use in place of audio.com and mixcloud".
- i_am_jl 3y ago
  I was a SoundCloud subscriber for a few years until mid '19. Back then the value prop was music discovery + streaming access to artists who weren't on other platforms. But I don't see any evidence of growth. Other platforms have stepped up their music discovery tools and broadened their catalogs. I ended up dropping the subscription because they didn't support Android Auto and said they had no plans to (in their defense, they introduced support in mid-2021). It very much feels like SoundCloud was first to the space (were they? surely someone else did "YouTube but music" first) and have been riding that out.

jorvi 3y ago

Just logged into my dormant SoundCloud to check the activity of a bunch of friends and acquaintances. Looks like most user activity (liking tracks, add to playlist, etc) steeply dropped off ~13-11 years ago, and I see virtually no one active after ~7 years ago. Not sure what the cause of that is..

alisonatwork 3y ago
They tried to win the mainstream audience and failed because the mainstream went to Spotify instead. But by selling out to the majors they also hurt the underground artists and producers that built the site's indie cred in the first place. There was a good article a few years back on The Verge: https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/21/15999172/soundcloud-business-model-future-spotify-streaming https://www.theverge.com/2017/7/21/15999172/soundcloud-busin... I guess since then the platform saw some success as a home for lo-fi hip-hop, so it seems a new generation of youngsters have gotten something out of it. Good for them. For electronic music I think we mostly went to Bandcamp and Mixcloud, especially when Beatport sold out too.

brodock 3y ago

It's amazing how SoundCloud had "everything" and they threw away. They had the unique Indy artists, they had the DJs and music producers, and they opted to move to compete with Spotify on a money loosing bet, without putting the effort to build the Player in at least every single platform supported. They did even more harm to themselves by blocking open source players that were doing "their work for free". If there is one big mistake they did early on was to block API access. The other one was to bet on "record labels contract" rather then becoming the source for Originals.

wholelotta 3y ago
All these web companies ran on gatekeeping their data to employ frontend teams. They look even more valuable to the financiers seeking to keep the aggregate busy so they don’t have time to focus on the expropriation of their labor and deflation of their buying power. But it’s a terrible long term strategy as it cuts off the group who would pay for API access only. But also a community of frontend first users who don’t care about APIs but design and functionality that works for them, means frontend first users jump to the next company with a frontend. If there was an API fee and key, and open frontends of various styles, Sooundcloud wins. There are API only streamers out there but they tend to focus on serving big tech. Apple I know specifies quality levels but actually passes some streaming requests along to wholesaler backends that deal with all the API and licensing crap for them.
peterlk 3y ago
There is nothing in the world that is as good as soundcloud was in 2012. It wasn’t scalable at that time, but it was an incredible melting pot of discoverability. I used to spend a lot of time on a site called CitySounds (it no longer exists) that was a geofenced soundcloud firehose. It allowed me to listen to the latest music from bedroom DJs in Sao Paulo or a live polka band from Vienna or a Russian children’s recital. Most of it was garbage, but it was diverse and interesting garbage, and that made it compelling to me. At the time, I ran a radio show, and being able to connect with a high school kid in Italy who was making cool hip hop beats was a way more meaningful human experience than playing another Pitbull track. And I think our listeners appreciated it too. It was as close as the world could practically get to copy-left, remix culture, and they threw it away because the founders lacked guts or vision or both, and the company was taken over by people who believe in a homogenized distribution model. It hurts my soul that we don’t have tools like old soundcloud - with the exception of last.fm, which keeps holding on. Last year, I would have said that bandcamp is carrying the torch, but I don’t think that’s true any more… perhaps the fediverse has an opportunity to step in here… perhaps we just need a new crop of founders who believe in a world full of diverse musical culture. Edit: I'll also add that the world lost an amazing tool when Echonest was bought. It would have been so cool to see that product blossom into a platform for general purpose music production and discovery. But instead, we get access to a nerfed version locked behind Spotify's API

pjmlp 3y ago

Yet another opportunity to remind buying physical media is still an option.

sjwhevvvvvsj 3y ago
SoundCloud was specifically good to find artists who didn’t exist on physical yet. That’s kinda the whole point of it, or was supposed to be before they lost their way.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Strangely enough YouTube, Vevo, Twitter have been my sources all these years, alongside indie concerts in small clubs.
seanw444 3y ago
I absolutely would not have discovered the bands I listen to all the time today if I stuck to physical media. The strength of these services is discovery. But yes, if you can obtain physical copies, that would be a good idea. I should probably start doing that.

thinkmassive 3y ago

It was great for a time. At least Prometheus lives on! https://developers.soundcloud.com/blog/prometheus-monitoring-at-soundcloud https://developers.soundcloud.com/blog/prometheus-monitoring...