8 ms·

This is fascinating to me. The list of things the author suggests the cerebellum handles is a tailor-made list of things I'm oddly bad at: 1. I'm very uncoordi

by akavi 3y ago

This is fascinating to me. The list of things the author suggests the cerebellum handles is a tailor-made list of things I'm oddly bad at: 1. I'm very uncoordinated, with a noticeable intentional tremor 2. I'm particularly bad at sequencing dependencies for projects/errands/household tasks. I have to write down even fairly simple sequences of subtasks or get lost in yak-shaving loops 3. When flustered, I make very distinctive disfluencies in speech around conjugations (swapping "but"/"and"/"although") and sequencing (ie, placing objects before subjects/verbs) in sentences as well swapping relationships (referring to someone's parent as their child or vice versa, swapping "you" and "I/me", etc) 4. I tend to have a "ground up" approach to writing (building clauses first and then moving them around to construct sentences), which doesn't resemble the approach of other people I've shoulder-surfed. All of these are fairly mild in terms of life impact, to be clear (or perhaps I'm just able to satisfactorily compensate for them in various ways) but I wonder if they all share some underlying minor cerebellar dysfunction.

weinzierl 3y ago
I can't help thinking that this is where humanity is heading. Given that the different parts of the brain have to compete for resources and given what the cerebellum does, it makes sense that a lesser developed one can be an advantage: It frees up resources for parts of the brain that are more important in our times.
- NhanH 3y ago
  Human society provides nowhere enough pressure for evolution to have effect (for good reasons), and our humanity timeline is nowhere near lengthy enough so far either. So I don’t think we are heading anywhere in that regards
  - sorokod 3y ago
    I agree but on the flip side it is interesting to consider what were the pressures and the timeline to bring us to where we are now. Great ape brains are distinguished from monkey brains by their larger frontal and cerebellar lobes. The Neanderthals had bigger brains than us but smaller cerebella. And, most strikingly, modern humans have much bigger cerebella than “anatomically modern” Cro-Magnon humans of only 50,000 years ago (but relatively smaller cerebral hemispheres!)
  - hyperthesis 3y ago
    Selective reproduction is evolutionary pressure; survival is mere prerequisite.
  - pi-e-sigma 3y ago
    How would you explain increasing average height in the US youth in the last 30 years? It can't be food availability, because 30 years ago people weren't hungry either
    - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
      Height stopped increasing around the mid-1970s and has been flat or falling since https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-height-by-year-of-birth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-height-by-year-of... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12868421/americans-shorter-professions-tallest-workers.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12868421/american... Worse for city kids: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rural-children-now-grow-slightly-taller-than-city-children-in-wealthy-countries/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rural-children-no...
    - larkost 3y ago
      Absolutely food, or at most a hormonal change based on food. Possibly with s side-order of lack of a few of the childhood diseases that have been controlled with inoculations. 30 years is WAY too small a timeframe for human evolution. That works on the order of 50-100 generations, not a single generation.
      - Jensson 3y ago
        Evolution doesn't happen quickly, but selection does. If something greatly changed how we select partners the past 100 years it could have an effect within a single generation generation. What could that be? Well, maybe feminism so women don't need to rely on a man to provide income, maybe socialist policies so nobody has to go hungry, and so on, plenty of reasons why some genes could be selected out of the gene pool that was previously fine there.
    - riversflow 3y ago
      Lack of disease and disease treatment. Mostly Vaccines. I got sick like 2-3 times grand total growing up, and only once any more than mildly. My parents and their parents all got badly sick more than that growing up, and both have stories about being on deaths door, e.g. my dad got german measels at 17 and was bed ridden for a month; I didn’t get my last growrh spurt until I was 19.
- helboi4 3y ago
  I'm not sure about that. Being unable to anticipate context sounds terrible for pretty much any task. Having to think through every step of anything is terrible. Not being able to form sentences fluently and instead having to arrange them like puzzles is far too time consuming. The article literally is explaining how a large cerebellum is crucial for humans' high intelligence. Reallocating resources to other parts of the brain would make us stupider.
  - altruios 3y ago
    Having no context does allow for a fresh perspective... Having to think things through slowly step by step may reveal errors other's glossed over... the cerebellum is important. But maybe, since we really know less about the brain than we think we do, differently wired does not equate 'stupider'. It takes all sorts to make a world. I agree with the language part, tedious... but maybe in certain situations it might be useful.
    - helboi4 3y ago
      I mean yes, people with disabilities often have a unique contribution to offer and a unique perspective. They often excel at very specific things. However, implying that it is so advantageous to be disabled that we would all evolve to be that way is ridiculous. Thinking things through slowly step by step may reveal errors others have glossed over...But it's perfectly possible for someone without a severe disability to do that. Meanwhile, the person with minimal to no cerebellum is totally incapable of stepping up to the task when, like a lot of the time, speed and intuition is important. If I wasn't able to rely on context and intuition at all I wouldn't be able to do my job, or even day to day tasks, with enough efficiency to get anything done. Furthermore, someone without a cerebellum will also have to learn to not smash themselves in the face when they're trying to eat and have to deal with constant sensory processing issues. This is not advantageous. It's a disability. So it's not going to be picked up by natural selection.
      - sage92 3y ago
        The premise that needs to be scrutinized is whether what we are deeming a “disability” is actually that. Thinking in systems, a component’s calibration (whether it is able or not) to a system can change due to the system as a whole changing (political, economic, cultural pressure). One example is how the change from hunter/gatherer to agricultural lifestyles may have rendered the strengths of the hunter’s brain a weakness in an agricultural society.
- close04 3y ago
  I imagine it's like performing a task in software ("big" brain, cerebrum) or hardware (cerebellum). One of them is faster and more efficient but very specialized. If it breaks you're left with the task being performed slower and less efficiently on the brain that can execute arbitrary code. But I can't imagine any change in this split in responsibilities will happen on human relevant timescales. The cerebellum is probably not evolving very fast anyway, while the cerebrum might evolve comparatively faster but it has no pressure to do it. And "faster" still means tens of thousands of years.
- kiba 3y ago
  Movement is very important to our health. People who don't move as often just die younger than those who don't. I don't know how it would impact our evolution long term.
  - timeagain 3y ago
    Doesn’t matter if you live to 55 or 95 if you have some kids when you’re 25.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
      I don't think that's correct; raising your kids - and potentially involvement with grandkids! - impacts long term results.
      - nextaccountic 3y ago
        In this same sense, people with no children can still help raise relatives, provide for them, or otherwise contribute for the long term success of their extended family, and thus indirectly spread their genes
- huytersd 3y ago
  What resources does it have to compete for? We basically have unlimited protein and carbs at this point.
plufz 3y ago
Often with the brain multiple regions are needed for a single function. For example planing action including movement has much to do with the prefrontal cortex and the basal ganglia is much involved in making smooth motions and inhibiting tremors, etc. Problems with the dopamine system also affect things like planing (ADHD) and tremors (Parkinson’s).
emayljames 3y ago
These seem highly related to neurodivergence, such as ASD and ADHD.
- anon84873628 3y ago
  Indeed, the article reminded me of the link between executive dysfunction (ADHD) and other problems like sensory processing disorders and postural sway. Turns out studies have confirmed the overlap in these conditions and also linked it with reduced grey matter volume in the cerebellum: https://psychcentral.com/adhd/postural-sway-adhd#postural-sway-and-adhd https://psychcentral.com/adhd/postural-sway-adhd#postural-sw...
codeflo 3y ago
I thought that the list of cognitive impairments sounds like a laundry list of ASD symptoms, and indeed, at least some researchers seem to believe that there's a connection between Autism and cerebellum dysfunction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677555/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677555/
- heyoni 3y ago
  There are also a number of rare diseases whose mutations affect cortical neurons and have some overlap in their symptoms with ASD.
- alan-hn 3y ago
  Shank3 is a scaffolding protein highly associated with deficits seen in ASD, it is highly expressed in cerebellar granule cells
MollyRealized 3y ago
With regards to #2, I'm wondering if anyone has directed you to https://goblin.tools/ https://goblin.tools/ ?

by akavi 3y ago

weinzierl 3y ago

I can't help thinking that this is where humanity is heading. Given that the different parts of the brain have to compete for resources and given what the cerebellum does, it makes sense that a lesser developed one can be an advantage: It frees up resources for parts of the brain that are more important in our times.

NhanH 3y ago
Human society provides nowhere enough pressure for evolution to have effect (for good reasons), and our humanity timeline is nowhere near lengthy enough so far either. So I don’t think we are heading anywhere in that regards
- sorokod 3y ago
  I agree but on the flip side it is interesting to consider what were the pressures and the timeline to bring us to where we are now. Great ape brains are distinguished from monkey brains by their larger frontal and cerebellar lobes. The Neanderthals had bigger brains than us but smaller cerebella. And, most strikingly, modern humans have much bigger cerebella than “anatomically modern” Cro-Magnon humans of only 50,000 years ago (but relatively smaller cerebral hemispheres!)
- hyperthesis 3y ago
  Selective reproduction is evolutionary pressure; survival is mere prerequisite.
- pi-e-sigma 3y ago
  How would you explain increasing average height in the US youth in the last 30 years? It can't be food availability, because 30 years ago people weren't hungry either
  - AndrewKemendo 3y ago
    Height stopped increasing around the mid-1970s and has been flat or falling since https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-height-by-year-of-birth https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/average-height-by-year-of... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12868421/americans-shorter-professions-tallest-workers.html https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12868421/american... Worse for city kids: https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rural-children-now-grow-slightly-taller-than-city-children-in-wealthy-countries/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/rural-children-no...
  - larkost 3y ago
    Absolutely food, or at most a hormonal change based on food. Possibly with s side-order of lack of a few of the childhood diseases that have been controlled with inoculations. 30 years is WAY too small a timeframe for human evolution. That works on the order of 50-100 generations, not a single generation.
    - Jensson 3y ago
      Evolution doesn't happen quickly, but selection does. If something greatly changed how we select partners the past 100 years it could have an effect within a single generation generation. What could that be? Well, maybe feminism so women don't need to rely on a man to provide income, maybe socialist policies so nobody has to go hungry, and so on, plenty of reasons why some genes could be selected out of the gene pool that was previously fine there.
  - riversflow 3y ago
    Lack of disease and disease treatment. Mostly Vaccines. I got sick like 2-3 times grand total growing up, and only once any more than mildly. My parents and their parents all got badly sick more than that growing up, and both have stories about being on deaths door, e.g. my dad got german measels at 17 and was bed ridden for a month; I didn’t get my last growrh spurt until I was 19.
helboi4 3y ago
I'm not sure about that. Being unable to anticipate context sounds terrible for pretty much any task. Having to think through every step of anything is terrible. Not being able to form sentences fluently and instead having to arrange them like puzzles is far too time consuming. The article literally is explaining how a large cerebellum is crucial for humans' high intelligence. Reallocating resources to other parts of the brain would make us stupider.
- altruios 3y ago
  Having no context does allow for a fresh perspective... Having to think things through slowly step by step may reveal errors other's glossed over... the cerebellum is important. But maybe, since we really know less about the brain than we think we do, differently wired does not equate 'stupider'. It takes all sorts to make a world. I agree with the language part, tedious... but maybe in certain situations it might be useful.
  - helboi4 3y ago
    I mean yes, people with disabilities often have a unique contribution to offer and a unique perspective. They often excel at very specific things. However, implying that it is so advantageous to be disabled that we would all evolve to be that way is ridiculous. Thinking things through slowly step by step may reveal errors others have glossed over...But it's perfectly possible for someone without a severe disability to do that. Meanwhile, the person with minimal to no cerebellum is totally incapable of stepping up to the task when, like a lot of the time, speed and intuition is important. If I wasn't able to rely on context and intuition at all I wouldn't be able to do my job, or even day to day tasks, with enough efficiency to get anything done. Furthermore, someone without a cerebellum will also have to learn to not smash themselves in the face when they're trying to eat and have to deal with constant sensory processing issues. This is not advantageous. It's a disability. So it's not going to be picked up by natural selection.
    - sage92 3y ago
      The premise that needs to be scrutinized is whether what we are deeming a “disability” is actually that. Thinking in systems, a component’s calibration (whether it is able or not) to a system can change due to the system as a whole changing (political, economic, cultural pressure). One example is how the change from hunter/gatherer to agricultural lifestyles may have rendered the strengths of the hunter’s brain a weakness in an agricultural society.
close04 3y ago
I imagine it's like performing a task in software ("big" brain, cerebrum) or hardware (cerebellum). One of them is faster and more efficient but very specialized. If it breaks you're left with the task being performed slower and less efficiently on the brain that can execute arbitrary code. But I can't imagine any change in this split in responsibilities will happen on human relevant timescales. The cerebellum is probably not evolving very fast anyway, while the cerebrum might evolve comparatively faster but it has no pressure to do it. And "faster" still means tens of thousands of years.
kiba 3y ago
Movement is very important to our health. People who don't move as often just die younger than those who don't. I don't know how it would impact our evolution long term.
- timeagain 3y ago
  Doesn’t matter if you live to 55 or 95 if you have some kids when you’re 25.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 3y ago
    I don't think that's correct; raising your kids - and potentially involvement with grandkids! - impacts long term results.
    - nextaccountic 3y ago
      In this same sense, people with no children can still help raise relatives, provide for them, or otherwise contribute for the long term success of their extended family, and thus indirectly spread their genes
huytersd 3y ago
What resources does it have to compete for? We basically have unlimited protein and carbs at this point.

plufz 3y ago

Often with the brain multiple regions are needed for a single function. For example planing action including movement has much to do with the prefrontal cortex and the basal ganglia is much involved in making smooth motions and inhibiting tremors, etc. Problems with the dopamine system also affect things like planing (ADHD) and tremors (Parkinson’s).

emayljames 3y ago

These seem highly related to neurodivergence, such as ASD and ADHD.

anon84873628 3y ago
Indeed, the article reminded me of the link between executive dysfunction (ADHD) and other problems like sensory processing disorders and postural sway. Turns out studies have confirmed the overlap in these conditions and also linked it with reduced grey matter volume in the cerebellum: https://psychcentral.com/adhd/postural-sway-adhd#postural-sway-and-adhd https://psychcentral.com/adhd/postural-sway-adhd#postural-sw...

codeflo 3y ago

I thought that the list of cognitive impairments sounds like a laundry list of ASD symptoms, and indeed, at least some researchers seem to believe that there's a connection between Autism and cerebellum dysfunction: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677555/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3677555/

heyoni 3y ago
There are also a number of rare diseases whose mutations affect cortical neurons and have some overlap in their symptoms with ASD.
alan-hn 3y ago
Shank3 is a scaffolding protein highly associated with deficits seen in ASD, it is highly expressed in cerebellar granule cells

MollyRealized 3y ago

With regards to #2, I'm wondering if anyone has directed you to https://goblin.tools/ https://goblin.tools/ ?