4 ms·

In six of the top 10 most competitive countries in the world (Sweden, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, and the United Kingdom), it's illegal to deman

In six of the top 10 most competitive countries in the world (Sweden, Finland, Germany, Netherlands, Denmark, and the United Kingdom), it's illegal to demand more than a 48-hour work week. The fact that it's illegal doesn't mean it's not happening.

njs12345 14y ago
It's certainly not illegal in the UK if the employee signs a waiver when hired: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426 http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHour... (see "Opting out of the 48 hour week")
- bmj 14y ago
  Is this typical for, say, the software industry there? I wonder if it's the equivalent of non-competes and intellectual property agreements here: ubiquitous enough that most people don't even blink when they are part of an employment contract.
  - AlisdairO 14y ago
    In the UK it's fairly typical to work a 37.5 hour working week in the software industry, with 20-25 days vacation. I work at $BIGCORP and work approximately those hours, as do the vast majority of my coworkers (apart from at intermittent crunch periods). My experience in previous businesses was roughly the same, as is that of my friends in other companies - apart from a couple who work longer because they want to. This does not apply to the (much higher paid) work available in programming in the banking sector, where substantially longer work weeks are typical.
    - njs12345 14y ago
      You'll definitely get one for any finance job, even an internship. Interestingly, they can't compel you to sign, but if you don't sign, they make you jump through all kinds of hoops w.r.t reporting your hours and such and mire you in so much bureaucracy you can't get anything done.
  - jiggy2011 14y ago
    I would say yes, In fact I don't think I can recall the last time I went for a job and they didn't give me that waiver to sign. And that isn't just software jobs, in fact even if you are just looking for jobs most recruiters will encourage you to sign it before they put you forward for vacancies.
asmala 14y ago
As an entrepreneur/freelancer, I don't have a lot of firsthand experience with Finnish labor laws, but my impression is that in practice such limitations apply mostly to manual laborers in bigger corporations. Going by the book, the labor laws also allow for paid overtime (up to 2x salary), but that is limited no more 138h per 4 month period, or approximately 8h per week. And even then the employee can decline. But that's if we go by the book... Many of my friends working in specialist jobs across various industries regularly work overtime, often without compensation. I guess they could technically decline but if your plan is career progression that might not be a smart move outside unionized workforces.
Atropos 14y ago
Yeah the law really doesn't mean alot. I know for a fact that the usual suspects like bankers, lawyers, middle management work crazy hours like everywhere else. There was actually a high court decision not long ago, where a lawyer demanded overtime pay for a few years of 60-70 hour workweek. But since his base pay was around 7000€ / month the court decided he shouldnt get anything, all hours are included in the salary - which is of course a totally reasonable and expected decision, but it shows that the 40 hour limit isnt too meaningful.

njs12345 14y ago

It's certainly not illegal in the UK if the employee signs a waiver when hired: http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHoursAndTimeOff/DG_10029426 http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Employment/Employees/WorkingHour... (see "Opting out of the 48 hour week")

bmj 14y ago
Is this typical for, say, the software industry there? I wonder if it's the equivalent of non-competes and intellectual property agreements here: ubiquitous enough that most people don't even blink when they are part of an employment contract.
- AlisdairO 14y ago
  In the UK it's fairly typical to work a 37.5 hour working week in the software industry, with 20-25 days vacation. I work at $BIGCORP and work approximately those hours, as do the vast majority of my coworkers (apart from at intermittent crunch periods). My experience in previous businesses was roughly the same, as is that of my friends in other companies - apart from a couple who work longer because they want to. This does not apply to the (much higher paid) work available in programming in the banking sector, where substantially longer work weeks are typical.
  - njs12345 14y ago
    You'll definitely get one for any finance job, even an internship. Interestingly, they can't compel you to sign, but if you don't sign, they make you jump through all kinds of hoops w.r.t reporting your hours and such and mire you in so much bureaucracy you can't get anything done.
- jiggy2011 14y ago
  I would say yes, In fact I don't think I can recall the last time I went for a job and they didn't give me that waiver to sign. And that isn't just software jobs, in fact even if you are just looking for jobs most recruiters will encourage you to sign it before they put you forward for vacancies.

asmala 14y ago

As an entrepreneur/freelancer, I don't have a lot of firsthand experience with Finnish labor laws, but my impression is that in practice such limitations apply mostly to manual laborers in bigger corporations. Going by the book, the labor laws also allow for paid overtime (up to 2x salary), but that is limited no more 138h per 4 month period, or approximately 8h per week. And even then the employee can decline. But that's if we go by the book... Many of my friends working in specialist jobs across various industries regularly work overtime, often without compensation. I guess they could technically decline but if your plan is career progression that might not be a smart move outside unionized workforces.

Atropos 14y ago

Yeah the law really doesn't mean alot. I know for a fact that the usual suspects like bankers, lawyers, middle management work crazy hours like everywhere else. There was actually a high court decision not long ago, where a lawyer demanded overtime pay for a few years of 60-70 hour workweek. But since his base pay was around 7000€ / month the court decided he shouldnt get anything, all hours are included in the salary - which is of course a totally reasonable and expected decision, but it shows that the 40 hour limit isnt too meaningful.