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I was listening to Joe Rogan interview David Blaine and he said there are plenty of card players where it’s literally undetectable the tricks they use, even wit

by wincy 3y ago

I was listening to Joe Rogan interview David Blaine and he said there are plenty of card players where it’s literally undetectable the tricks they use, even with cameras everywhere. Makes me have no interest in playing card games with anyone but a few friends.

dragontamer 3y ago
Oh, there's so many card manipulation tricks it's hilarious. I can false shuffle a deck, I can seed a deck through shuffles. I can false cut. Tricks with my hands to 'do nothing's with a deck even though it looks like I'm shuffling or cutting the deck. When we get to truly skilled magicians, they can perfect shuffle (IIRC, 8x rifle shuffles in a row with perfect precision returns the deck to it's original state). They can perfect cut (two cuts that return the deck to the original state). And they can therefore look like they're shuffling, when in fact they're just leaving the deck in the same state the whole time (or at least they have a plan to return the deck back to it's original state later on). There's also hidden cuts and hidden shuffles. To change the deck even though it didn't look like anything happens. So if I perfect cut a deck, say a silly story to you, then hidden perfect cut the deck back to it's original state, the audience probably doesn't realize their chosen cards remain on the top of the deck. (Even if they spot the second hidden cut, they likely don't realize the importance of it) ---------- I did this once or twice (try) to pass out like 4x Royal Flushes on Poker night to prove a point lol. Seed some royal flushes on the top, false shuffle the deck, etc etc. IIRC only two Royal Flushes survived but the point was made. It's certainly fun. But it does make me wonder how people are supposed to trust the dealer when so many of these tricks exist and aren't even that hard to do or practice. (Perfect shuffles are really hard. But the other stuff is just pretending to be a klutz and undoing the shuffle by dropping the cards or other such planned clumsiness, and then confidently pretending that the deck was truly shuffled). These sorts of things are more believable before your friends realize you are ridiculously practiced with card tricks. Still though, street con artists are on another level. I guess when it's your living you get much better at it.
- mhb 3y ago
  I think that it is thought (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation) that seven riffle shuffles randomize a deck. So you may be misremembering that eight returns it to the original state.
  - dragontamer 3y ago
    Riffle shuffles have randomness because it's assumed no human can: 1. Pick up exactly 26 cards. 2. Shuffle exactly alternating left-right-left-right across all 26 cards. But both of these feats are possible with practice. Repeat this perfect riffle shuffle enough times and the deck returns to it's exact original state. It's just simple math at that point, but it does mean you need perfection on every action. ---------- When a normie riffle shuffles, of course it's random. The issue is that magicians are ridiculously skilled in secret ways that are incredibly difficult to detect. That is: a magician can look like they're shuffling, but in reality they're actually seeding and returning the deck to a state they want it to be in for their tricks. Or a cheater at poker for that matter. ------- That's okay though. If you can 'only' pickup exactly 26 cards consistently, you are skilled enough to perfect cut, which is still enough for a lot of tricks.
  - gjhr 3y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation#Perfect_shuffles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation#Per... Shows that perfect shuffles can return the deck to the original state.
- lowbloodsugar 3y ago
  That's why player behind dealer always cuts after dealer shuffled.
- lupire 3y ago
  Perfect bridge hands are pretty common because perfect shuffles happen randomly pretty often when you play a lot of games starting from an unshuffled deck.
dehrmann 3y ago
Watch this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFIJyWKs1k&t=94s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFIJyWKs1k&t=94s

by wincy 3y ago

dragontamer 3y ago

Oh, there's so many card manipulation tricks it's hilarious. I can false shuffle a deck, I can seed a deck through shuffles. I can false cut. Tricks with my hands to 'do nothing's with a deck even though it looks like I'm shuffling or cutting the deck. When we get to truly skilled magicians, they can perfect shuffle (IIRC, 8x rifle shuffles in a row with perfect precision returns the deck to it's original state). They can perfect cut (two cuts that return the deck to the original state). And they can therefore look like they're shuffling, when in fact they're just leaving the deck in the same state the whole time (or at least they have a plan to return the deck back to it's original state later on). There's also hidden cuts and hidden shuffles. To change the deck even though it didn't look like anything happens. So if I perfect cut a deck, say a silly story to you, then hidden perfect cut the deck back to it's original state, the audience probably doesn't realize their chosen cards remain on the top of the deck. (Even if they spot the second hidden cut, they likely don't realize the importance of it) ---------- I did this once or twice (try) to pass out like 4x Royal Flushes on Poker night to prove a point lol. Seed some royal flushes on the top, false shuffle the deck, etc etc. IIRC only two Royal Flushes survived but the point was made. It's certainly fun. But it does make me wonder how people are supposed to trust the dealer when so many of these tricks exist and aren't even that hard to do or practice. (Perfect shuffles are really hard. But the other stuff is just pretending to be a klutz and undoing the shuffle by dropping the cards or other such planned clumsiness, and then confidently pretending that the deck was truly shuffled). These sorts of things are more believable before your friends realize you are ridiculously practiced with card tricks. Still though, street con artists are on another level. I guess when it's your living you get much better at it.

mhb 3y ago
I think that it is thought (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation) that seven riffle shuffles randomize a deck. So you may be misremembering that eight returns it to the original state.
- dragontamer 3y ago
  Riffle shuffles have randomness because it's assumed no human can: 1. Pick up exactly 26 cards. 2. Shuffle exactly alternating left-right-left-right across all 26 cards. But both of these feats are possible with practice. Repeat this perfect riffle shuffle enough times and the deck returns to it's exact original state. It's just simple math at that point, but it does mean you need perfection on every action. ---------- When a normie riffle shuffles, of course it's random. The issue is that magicians are ridiculously skilled in secret ways that are incredibly difficult to detect. That is: a magician can look like they're shuffling, but in reality they're actually seeding and returning the deck to a state they want it to be in for their tricks. Or a cheater at poker for that matter. ------- That's okay though. If you can 'only' pickup exactly 26 cards consistently, you are skilled enough to perfect cut, which is still enough for a lot of tricks.
- gjhr 3y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation#Perfect_shuffles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Riffle_shuffle_permutation#Per... Shows that perfect shuffles can return the deck to the original state.
lowbloodsugar 3y ago
That's why player behind dealer always cuts after dealer shuffled.
lupire 3y ago
Perfect bridge hands are pretty common because perfect shuffles happen randomly pretty often when you play a lot of games starting from an unshuffled deck.

dehrmann 3y ago

Watch this guy: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFIJyWKs1k&t=94s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwFIJyWKs1k&t=94s