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As a thought exercise: What would happen next if the Palestinians laid down their arms and renowned warfare? What would happen next if the Israelis laid down

by anjel 3y ago

As a thought exercise: What would happen next if the Palestinians laid down their arms and renowned warfare? What would happen next if the Israelis laid down their arms and renounced warfare?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
mandmandam 3y ago
I'd like to know: What value you think lies within your hypothetical? Do you think either of those scenarios are possible? Do you really think that if Hamas (not to be confused with the civilians who are being murdered) "laid down their arms" then Israel would start to treat Palestinians like humans? ... Really? Do you think that Palestinians who lost their homes, their families, their whole world to this 3 month orgy of atrocity are more or less likely to take up arms than people with something to lose? 30,000 Palestinians have been murdered. A million people are facing death by starvation and disease. It needs to stop.
- anjel 3y ago
  >I'd like to know: What value you think lies within your hypothetical? >Do you think either of those scenarios are possible? You either missed the part about thought exercise or slipped in a bad-faith query. One side has tried repeatedly to compromise, the counter-party is fundamentally opposed to any compromise. Try gaming that out and see how you might succeed in reaching a successful compromise for peace. >Do you really think that if Hamas (not to be confused with the civilians who are being murdered) "laid down their arms" then Israel would start to treat Palestinians like humans? ... Really? What happened when Egypt was offered land for peace? What happened when the PA was offered 95% of the west bank in exchange for peace? Are you familiar with the "Peace Now" movement from the 1990s? It was way too large to call it a fringe movement? The response was suicide bombings. That was a quarter century ago and the last 25 years have made it rather bleak to realistically find peace, unless you think "the river to sea" as a peace proffer, perhaps. Do you? Really?? Granted its radicalizing for sure. Can you see how Palestinian if not Perso-Palestinian tactics would be as radicalizing on Israelis? Is one radicalization better than the other? >30,000 Palestinians have been murdered. A million people are facing death by starvation and disease. It needs to stop. Casualty stats are like polls. Its quasi data at best. OF COURSE it needs to stop. BILATERALLY. Have you heard one Palestinian person so much as nuance that their misery is a reaction to a Palestinian act of atrocity? Its a glaring double standard. Its a race to the bottom, and pretending that the Palestinians are pure victims while the Israelis are pure evil only illuminates your one-sidedness in this matter. Until both sides are able to find empathy for each other's existence, the race to the bottom is a sure thing. One last question for you: Can someone name a large-scale armed military conflict in which the civilian population caught in that conflict weren't treated as expendable?
  - mandmandam 3y ago
    Palestinians are resisting a decades long occupation. Israelis are bombing refugee camps and hospitals. Openly calling for the destruction/removal of the entire population. Assassinating journalists, preventing food and electricity and clean water from an entire population. > Casualty stats are like polls. Its quasi data at best. 30,000 murdered people in three months isn't a statistic. It's human lives. Those are real people. They have names, and you can see the lists compiled. The average age of murdered children over there is five years old. If you want better stats, get Israel to let journalists in (maybe ask them to stop killing them while you're at it). > Can someone name a large-scale armed military conflict in which the civilian population caught in that conflict weren't treated as expendable? Ah - there it is. Palestinian civilians are expendable to Israel, and you call this normal. But how many senior Hamas leaders have been taken in Gaza? Zero. How many hostages have been rescued? Minus three. All while a child is murdered every ten minutes. Israel is committing verified war crimes and atrocities every day. It's not excusable. There is a responsibility, even in war, to protect civilian life.

by anjel 3y ago

As a thought exercise: What would happen next if the Palestinians laid down their arms and renowned warfare? What would happen next if the Israelis laid down their arms and renounced warfare?

deleted 3y ago

[deleted]

mandmandam 3y ago

I'd like to know: What value you think lies within your hypothetical? Do you think either of those scenarios are possible? Do you really think that if Hamas (not to be confused with the civilians who are being murdered) "laid down their arms" then Israel would start to treat Palestinians like humans? ... Really? Do you think that Palestinians who lost their homes, their families, their whole world to this 3 month orgy of atrocity are more or less likely to take up arms than people with something to lose? 30,000 Palestinians have been murdered. A million people are facing death by starvation and disease. It needs to stop.

anjel 3y ago
>I'd like to know: What value you think lies within your hypothetical? >Do you think either of those scenarios are possible? You either missed the part about thought exercise or slipped in a bad-faith query. One side has tried repeatedly to compromise, the counter-party is fundamentally opposed to any compromise. Try gaming that out and see how you might succeed in reaching a successful compromise for peace. >Do you really think that if Hamas (not to be confused with the civilians who are being murdered) "laid down their arms" then Israel would start to treat Palestinians like humans? ... Really? What happened when Egypt was offered land for peace? What happened when the PA was offered 95% of the west bank in exchange for peace? Are you familiar with the "Peace Now" movement from the 1990s? It was way too large to call it a fringe movement? The response was suicide bombings. That was a quarter century ago and the last 25 years have made it rather bleak to realistically find peace, unless you think "the river to sea" as a peace proffer, perhaps. Do you? Really?? Granted its radicalizing for sure. Can you see how Palestinian if not Perso-Palestinian tactics would be as radicalizing on Israelis? Is one radicalization better than the other? >30,000 Palestinians have been murdered. A million people are facing death by starvation and disease. It needs to stop. Casualty stats are like polls. Its quasi data at best. OF COURSE it needs to stop. BILATERALLY. Have you heard one Palestinian person so much as nuance that their misery is a reaction to a Palestinian act of atrocity? Its a glaring double standard. Its a race to the bottom, and pretending that the Palestinians are pure victims while the Israelis are pure evil only illuminates your one-sidedness in this matter. Until both sides are able to find empathy for each other's existence, the race to the bottom is a sure thing. One last question for you: Can someone name a large-scale armed military conflict in which the civilian population caught in that conflict weren't treated as expendable?
- mandmandam 3y ago
  Palestinians are resisting a decades long occupation. Israelis are bombing refugee camps and hospitals. Openly calling for the destruction/removal of the entire population. Assassinating journalists, preventing food and electricity and clean water from an entire population. > Casualty stats are like polls. Its quasi data at best. 30,000 murdered people in three months isn't a statistic. It's human lives. Those are real people. They have names, and you can see the lists compiled. The average age of murdered children over there is five years old. If you want better stats, get Israel to let journalists in (maybe ask them to stop killing them while you're at it). > Can someone name a large-scale armed military conflict in which the civilian population caught in that conflict weren't treated as expendable? Ah - there it is. Palestinian civilians are expendable to Israel, and you call this normal. But how many senior Hamas leaders have been taken in Gaza? Zero. How many hostages have been rescued? Minus three. All while a child is murdered every ten minutes. Israel is committing verified war crimes and atrocities every day. It's not excusable. There is a responsibility, even in war, to protect civilian life.