6 ms·

Microsoft poised to overtake Apple as most valuable company

54 points by ortusdux 3y ago

FirmwareBurner 3y ago
>analysts expectation of slowing iPhone demand Has Apple considered making decent phones at budget prices for a change? Something in the Samsung A34-A54 ~€300 price range. There's only so many people willing to spend €1k+ on a phone these days.
- notyourwork 3y ago
  Fewer skus seems like a massive simplifier to me. The SE and the mini seem to me like their “cheaper” line. I love my iPhone 13 mini for form factor.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    Have you ever compared the low-res dim IPS display of a €400+ SE to the much cheaper Samsung A34/A54 that ship with bright 1080p OLED high refresh displays with 128GB to boot? It's not even a competition. And yes the display matters the most to most consumers as that's the primary interface the user has to the phone. A small dim 720p IPS display doesn't cut it anymore in 2024 especially at €400+ price point where Android competition eats it. >Fewer skus seems like a massive simplifier to me What use is fewer SKUs if nobody is buying them? Nobody in my country(not USA where iPhone is king due to iMessage lock-in and high income) is buying the SE because at that price it's terrible value for money compared to the competition. Everyone is buying mid priced Androids and those with money buy the Pro iPhone but never the SE because it's just shit value. Apple needs to replace the SE with something more modern with bigger OLED and then it will sell.
    - notyourwork 3y ago
      Not sure Apple is targeting your market segment then. Clearly they are doing something right considering their revenue, value and performance. The 13 mini has an oled display, not sure what you’re disagreeing with.
    - timeon 3y ago
      I'm not from US but I bought SE. Not sure about situation now as it was ~5 years ago and it still works.
    - yftsui 3y ago
      SE 3rd gen is a great small phone, not sure why you say its screen is dim. Glad Samsung worked out for you, that’s the benefit of competition. It’s good that Apple wasn’t able to grip all segments of the market.
      - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
        >SE 3rd gen is a great small phone, not sure why you say its screen is dim Because I have a work provided SE3 and the display is worse than on my ancient 2012 Samsung S3, let alone a modern budget Samsung OLED like the A54. It's far gar too expensive for what it offers when you look at the EU market and competition. It boggles my mind how Apple is selling 2008 display tech at over €400+ when all their cheaper competitors habe bright high refresh rate OLEDs and more storage to boot. No surprise it's not selling well to consumers here. It's only great if you need the cheapest possible new iphone for the ecosystem, which is why businesses buy fleets of them for the workforce.
        ravetcofx 3y ago
        I'm not an apple Fan or user, but Rather than screen and other specs, they go for powerful CPU which is probably a small order of magnitude faster than the entry level chips Samsung puts in their budget line. This gives Apple freedom to update it for years.
        wkat4242 3y ago
        So does Samsung. My work A52s is 3 years old, still going strong and getting all the latest os upgrades. For my private phone I bought an S23 flagship. Fastest SoC you can buy from Qualcomm and 120Hz oled, real dualsim, Telefocus camera. And that for less than 100€ more than an iPhone SE :) I also love the added features like the DeX desktop mode, I use it a lot at work where our computers are severely locked down. Just plug the phone into the docking station and i have my personal pc with 5G unrestricted uplink.
    - wkat4242 3y ago
      Also here in Europe the SE is 579€ not 429$ which makes it an even worse deal.
- 1over137 3y ago
  >Has Apple considered making decent phones at budget prices for a change? No. In their entire history, they've hardly ever cared about the low end.
- KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
  iPads are cheap and provides great value
- ActorNightly 3y ago
  they did a cheaper iphone SE version in 2016 at one point and time, and it did horribly. Target market for iPhone is the same as for higher end cars, not for performance but for status.
  - Jtsummers 3y ago
    They still have a cheaper (by a bit) SE version. The current one's internals are basically the same as the iPhone 13. Still sells for $429 so above the $300 price point. They picked the designation back up in 2020 with an iPhone 11 based one (released concurrently with the 11) and updated it in 2022 concurrent to the 13's release.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >internals are basically the same as the iPhone 13 But who cares about the internals if the display, the thing via which users operates and consume content on their phones, is absolute garbage on the SE3 for 2024 standards? "The display might look like shit, but at least I have a top of the line processor." Said no smartphone customer ever. Guess what, I have an Android with a chip weaker than on my work provided SE3 but it feels much faster and nicer to use because of the brighter 1080p OLED display operating at 90Hz. Going back to the SE3 60Hz display feels like going back in time over 10 years. Everything motion like scrolling feels slow and janky on it despite the fancy processor. Top tip: faster refreshing displays make a theoretically slower phone feel faster than a fast phone with a slow display.
      - Jtsummers 3y ago
        > But who cares about the internals if the display, the thing via which users operates and consume content on their phones, is absolute garbage on the SE3 for 2024 standards? People who want an iPhone and aren't willing to spring another $170 for a better display, obviously. At least the SE should get another 4-5 years of OS support given its internals and Apples's support track record for OS support (5-7 years is typical at this point). This display thing really seems to bother you a lot for someone who buys Android devices. Why do you care?
- philwelch 3y ago
  They probably will one of these days. Since most people buy a phone and keep using it until either it gets lost or it’s completely unusable, cutting corners and adopting a strategy of planned obsolescence makes sense.
- vikramkr 3y ago
  Their stock is up almost 40 percent over the last year, they've got a 2.8 trillion dollar market cap, 380 billion in revenue. They're doing fine and overreacting to wall street analysts is more likely to cause issues than continuing to make premium phones
- askafriend 3y ago
  The cheapest phone Apple sells is actually only $429: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se From The Verge: "You cannot get another phone for under $500 with as fast a processor or as many years of expected updates as an iPhone SE. Apple doesn’t come out and say how many years of OS updates its phones will receive, but the first-generation iPhone SE from 2016 is able to run the latest iOS 15." https://www.theverge.com/22967925/apple-iphone-se-2022-vs-google-pixel-5a-samsung-galaxy-a52-5g-a42-moto-edge-pro-spec-comparison https://www.theverge.com/22967925/apple-iphone-se-2022-vs-go...
  - ksec 3y ago
    >The cheapest phone Apple sells is actually only $429: To the OP asking for ~€300 price range, that is ~$329 USD including Tax. For it to be ~€300 price range and including Tax. That is roughly asking for Apple to sell an Entry level phone at $270 USD. And that assuming the same exchange rate and pricing. Which we know Apple tends to charge a tiny little higher in EUR due to consumer right etc.
    - askafriend 3y ago
      The SE used to be $399 but I guess inflation + increased component prices tacked on another $30.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    The SE is very good for speed for money yes. However it severely lacks on other mod cons compared to android midrange phones. An android at this price point will offer a bezelless display, in-display fingerprint, oled display at 120Hz. The SE's design is really quite dated now. It beats the Android competition at SoC speed but nothing else. In particular the screens on Android are so much better at this price range. And that's the main thing you interact with. IMO the Android midrangers are much better offers all round. And Apple doesn't even have anything to compete with android budget phones (150-300$). Which usually also offer amoled bezelless displays and 90 or sometimes even 120 Hz.
    - 3y ago
notyourwork 3y ago
Not surprised, where Apple has concentrated brand and product line value, Microsoft has breadth of business. Apple has the i-line of products, MacBooks and “services”. Microsoft has desktop, devices, games, cloud. It’s no surprise to me.
ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago
If Apple disappears tomorrow, the world will be at a loss. If Microsoft disappears tomorrow, no one will bat an eyelid.
- lwhi 3y ago
  How do you figure this?
- dmz73 3y ago
  I have no love for Microsoft but they do provide value that most businesses rely on. If they disappeared tomorrow, everyone would feel the pain. Apple provides just a veneer of convenience. If Apple disappeared tomorrow, only Apple users would be emotionally devastated but otherwise just slightly inconvenienced as they would have to bring forward their next phone/tablet purchase forward by few months and decide which brand to use instead.
  - askvictor 3y ago
    But... Blue bubbles!
- c-cube 3y ago
  Yeah I'm sure that none of the users of vscode, github, Excel, or windows will have any problem with moving on. That's always a trivial, frictionless process.
- screye 3y ago
  Surely that's a joke ?
- ksec 3y ago
  If I had to vote the most important piece of Software in history, it wouldn't be Windows, MacOS or Linux. It would be Excel. There is a whole world of tech usage outside of Tech or Silicon Valley. It is not an exaggeration to say the world runs on Excel. Most if not all Fortune 2000 relies on it.
  - 3y ago
voiceblue 3y ago
Round and round we go. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=microsoft%20apple%20most&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...
DueDilligence 3y ago
[dead]
vikramkr 3y ago
Weird how instinctively zero sum some folks are - as of Microsoft stock doing well means Microsoft is 'winning' while apple is 'losing.' Apple stock is up about 40 percent over the last year they're doing fine
mgh2 3y ago
Due to AI hype?

54 points by ortusdux 3y ago

>analysts expectation of slowing iPhone demand Has Apple considered making decent phones at budget prices for a change? Something in the Samsung A34-A54 ~€300 price range. There's only so many people willing to spend €1k+ on a phone these days.

notyourwork 3y ago
Fewer skus seems like a massive simplifier to me. The SE and the mini seem to me like their “cheaper” line. I love my iPhone 13 mini for form factor.
- FirmwareBurner 3y ago
  Have you ever compared the low-res dim IPS display of a €400+ SE to the much cheaper Samsung A34/A54 that ship with bright 1080p OLED high refresh displays with 128GB to boot? It's not even a competition. And yes the display matters the most to most consumers as that's the primary interface the user has to the phone. A small dim 720p IPS display doesn't cut it anymore in 2024 especially at €400+ price point where Android competition eats it. >Fewer skus seems like a massive simplifier to me What use is fewer SKUs if nobody is buying them? Nobody in my country(not USA where iPhone is king due to iMessage lock-in and high income) is buying the SE because at that price it's terrible value for money compared to the competition. Everyone is buying mid priced Androids and those with money buy the Pro iPhone but never the SE because it's just shit value. Apple needs to replace the SE with something more modern with bigger OLED and then it will sell.
  - notyourwork 3y ago
    Not sure Apple is targeting your market segment then. Clearly they are doing something right considering their revenue, value and performance. The 13 mini has an oled display, not sure what you’re disagreeing with.
  - timeon 3y ago
    I'm not from US but I bought SE. Not sure about situation now as it was ~5 years ago and it still works.
  - yftsui 3y ago
    SE 3rd gen is a great small phone, not sure why you say its screen is dim. Glad Samsung worked out for you, that’s the benefit of competition. It’s good that Apple wasn’t able to grip all segments of the market.
    - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
      >SE 3rd gen is a great small phone, not sure why you say its screen is dim Because I have a work provided SE3 and the display is worse than on my ancient 2012 Samsung S3, let alone a modern budget Samsung OLED like the A54. It's far gar too expensive for what it offers when you look at the EU market and competition. It boggles my mind how Apple is selling 2008 display tech at over €400+ when all their cheaper competitors habe bright high refresh rate OLEDs and more storage to boot. No surprise it's not selling well to consumers here. It's only great if you need the cheapest possible new iphone for the ecosystem, which is why businesses buy fleets of them for the workforce.
      - ravetcofx 3y ago
        I'm not an apple Fan or user, but Rather than screen and other specs, they go for powerful CPU which is probably a small order of magnitude faster than the entry level chips Samsung puts in their budget line. This gives Apple freedom to update it for years.
        wkat4242 3y ago
        So does Samsung. My work A52s is 3 years old, still going strong and getting all the latest os upgrades. For my private phone I bought an S23 flagship. Fastest SoC you can buy from Qualcomm and 120Hz oled, real dualsim, Telefocus camera. And that for less than 100€ more than an iPhone SE :) I also love the added features like the DeX desktop mode, I use it a lot at work where our computers are severely locked down. Just plug the phone into the docking station and i have my personal pc with 5G unrestricted uplink.
  - wkat4242 3y ago
    Also here in Europe the SE is 579€ not 429$ which makes it an even worse deal.
1over137 3y ago
>Has Apple considered making decent phones at budget prices for a change? No. In their entire history, they've hardly ever cared about the low end.
KRAKRISMOTT 3y ago
iPads are cheap and provides great value
ActorNightly 3y ago
they did a cheaper iphone SE version in 2016 at one point and time, and it did horribly. Target market for iPhone is the same as for higher end cars, not for performance but for status.
- Jtsummers 3y ago
  They still have a cheaper (by a bit) SE version. The current one's internals are basically the same as the iPhone 13. Still sells for $429 so above the $300 price point. They picked the designation back up in 2020 with an iPhone 11 based one (released concurrently with the 11) and updated it in 2022 concurrent to the 13's release.
  - FirmwareBurner 3y ago
    >internals are basically the same as the iPhone 13 But who cares about the internals if the display, the thing via which users operates and consume content on their phones, is absolute garbage on the SE3 for 2024 standards? "The display might look like shit, but at least I have a top of the line processor." Said no smartphone customer ever. Guess what, I have an Android with a chip weaker than on my work provided SE3 but it feels much faster and nicer to use because of the brighter 1080p OLED display operating at 90Hz. Going back to the SE3 60Hz display feels like going back in time over 10 years. Everything motion like scrolling feels slow and janky on it despite the fancy processor. Top tip: faster refreshing displays make a theoretically slower phone feel faster than a fast phone with a slow display.
    - Jtsummers 3y ago
      > But who cares about the internals if the display, the thing via which users operates and consume content on their phones, is absolute garbage on the SE3 for 2024 standards? People who want an iPhone and aren't willing to spring another $170 for a better display, obviously. At least the SE should get another 4-5 years of OS support given its internals and Apples's support track record for OS support (5-7 years is typical at this point). This display thing really seems to bother you a lot for someone who buys Android devices. Why do you care?
philwelch 3y ago
They probably will one of these days. Since most people buy a phone and keep using it until either it gets lost or it’s completely unusable, cutting corners and adopting a strategy of planned obsolescence makes sense.
vikramkr 3y ago
Their stock is up almost 40 percent over the last year, they've got a 2.8 trillion dollar market cap, 380 billion in revenue. They're doing fine and overreacting to wall street analysts is more likely to cause issues than continuing to make premium phones
askafriend 3y ago
The cheapest phone Apple sells is actually only $429: https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se https://www.apple.com/shop/buy-iphone/iphone-se From The Verge: "You cannot get another phone for under $500 with as fast a processor or as many years of expected updates as an iPhone SE. Apple doesn’t come out and say how many years of OS updates its phones will receive, but the first-generation iPhone SE from 2016 is able to run the latest iOS 15." https://www.theverge.com/22967925/apple-iphone-se-2022-vs-google-pixel-5a-samsung-galaxy-a52-5g-a42-moto-edge-pro-spec-comparison https://www.theverge.com/22967925/apple-iphone-se-2022-vs-go...
- ksec 3y ago
  >The cheapest phone Apple sells is actually only $429: To the OP asking for ~€300 price range, that is ~$329 USD including Tax. For it to be ~€300 price range and including Tax. That is roughly asking for Apple to sell an Entry level phone at $270 USD. And that assuming the same exchange rate and pricing. Which we know Apple tends to charge a tiny little higher in EUR due to consumer right etc.
  - askafriend 3y ago
    The SE used to be $399 but I guess inflation + increased component prices tacked on another $30.
- wkat4242 3y ago
  The SE is very good for speed for money yes. However it severely lacks on other mod cons compared to android midrange phones. An android at this price point will offer a bezelless display, in-display fingerprint, oled display at 120Hz. The SE's design is really quite dated now. It beats the Android competition at SoC speed but nothing else. In particular the screens on Android are so much better at this price range. And that's the main thing you interact with. IMO the Android midrangers are much better offers all round. And Apple doesn't even have anything to compete with android budget phones (150-300$). Which usually also offer amoled bezelless displays and 90 or sometimes even 120 Hz.
  - 3y ago

notyourwork 3y ago

Not surprised, where Apple has concentrated brand and product line value, Microsoft has breadth of business. Apple has the i-line of products, MacBooks and “services”. Microsoft has desktop, devices, games, cloud. It’s no surprise to me.

ilrwbwrkhv 3y ago

If Apple disappears tomorrow, the world will be at a loss. If Microsoft disappears tomorrow, no one will bat an eyelid.

lwhi 3y ago
How do you figure this?
dmz73 3y ago
I have no love for Microsoft but they do provide value that most businesses rely on. If they disappeared tomorrow, everyone would feel the pain. Apple provides just a veneer of convenience. If Apple disappeared tomorrow, only Apple users would be emotionally devastated but otherwise just slightly inconvenienced as they would have to bring forward their next phone/tablet purchase forward by few months and decide which brand to use instead.
- askvictor 3y ago
  But... Blue bubbles!
c-cube 3y ago
Yeah I'm sure that none of the users of vscode, github, Excel, or windows will have any problem with moving on. That's always a trivial, frictionless process.
screye 3y ago
Surely that's a joke ?
ksec 3y ago
If I had to vote the most important piece of Software in history, it wouldn't be Windows, MacOS or Linux. It would be Excel. There is a whole world of tech usage outside of Tech or Silicon Valley. It is not an exaggeration to say the world runs on Excel. Most if not all Fortune 2000 relies on it.
- 3y ago

voiceblue 3y ago

Round and round we go. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=microsoft%20apple%20most&sort=byPopularity&type=story https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...

DueDilligence 3y ago

[dead]

vikramkr 3y ago

Weird how instinctively zero sum some folks are - as of Microsoft stock doing well means Microsoft is 'winning' while apple is 'losing.' Apple stock is up about 40 percent over the last year they're doing fine

mgh2 3y ago

Due to AI hype?