11 ms·

Fairness and kindness are not weaknesses

20 points by devonnull 3y ago

Mobil1 3y ago
[dead]
glcihgnwe 3y ago
No, but it's dangerous to grant it to people who don't reciprocate. One of the diversity officers at my company was recently discovered to have been embezzling money from the company, cloaking oneself in noble moral intentions and telling a satisfying moral story is just that: speech. We need to see folks demonstrate good faith before inviting them into a system of trade for mutual benefit.
- davorak 3y ago
  > We need to see folks demonstrate good faith before inviting them into a system of trade for mutual benefit. Starting form zero a society where everyone follows this to the letter can not get started since there is no record of actions yet for people to judge people by. Experimentally extending trust/opportunities in perhaps a limited fashion is one way to get the ball rolling on this
- withinboredom 3y ago
  And if people are waiting for you to replicate, when will there ever be any trust?
tombert 3y ago
I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I had no idea if they had a knife or anything. [1] That really sucked, I liked that phone, but the part that sucked worse was everyone felt compelled to give me a long victim-blamey lecture about how you can't trust anyone and that I shouldn't have unlocked my phone, and that they would never fall for anything like that. Usually I just rolled my eyes with this, but eventually one person wouldn't relent, constantly explaining that in NYC this is something you gotta know, despite the fact that I have lived in NYC longer than this person. Eventually I responded back with "you know, I appreciate the lecture, but having empathy isn't a weakness you fucking moron. If I was stuck in Manhattan without a phone I would want someone to help me. I guess I just thought it was right to pay it forward. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way". For some reason, that guy hasn't talked to me since. [1] Before I get a bunch of suggestions, I did report the phone as stolen on the FindMy app, and I filed a police report with the IMEI.
- rainonmoon 3y ago
  Yeah those people can go screw (respectfully, I mean; I'm sure some are your friends.) Sorry that happened to you, but for what it's worth, this internet stranger would've done exactly the same thing, and I think your reasoning is sound.
  - tombert 3y ago
    I mean, I don't think that they meant anything by it. I just think it's easy for them to be in positions of judgement when nothing like that has happened to them. I probably shouldn't have called the guy a fucking moron, I was just frustrated because everyone was giving me the same lecture.
- blablablerg 3y ago
  (Too much) empathy can definitely be a weakness. It is situational however, in a safe and peaceful environment it is beneficial and helpful, in less fortunate environments it can make you a target.
  - withinboredom 3y ago
    Too much of anything can be a weakness. If you blow up whenever someone makes a mom joke at your (mom's) expense ... that can be used against you. It takes a cool head to prevail in these situations and defensive thinking. He could have asked the kids to back up, ensuring he had enough space and time to react if they tried something. You can still help people and remain wary of them.
  - 0wis 3y ago
    According to game theory, you should have empathy but not too much. Its such a powerful theoretical finding for every aspect of life. I found it best explained in the Veritasium video on game theory [1] [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM&pp=ygUfZ2FtZSB0aGVvcnkgaGlzdG9yeSB0aXQgZm9yIHRhdA%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM&pp=ygUfZ2FtZSB0aGV...
- mostofemlolz 3y ago
johnvak01 3y ago
[dead]
oatmeal1 3y ago
> Billionaires are Machiavellian, psychopathic, and narcissistic, according to psychological research. They are malevolent self-promoters, emotionally cold, nonstop liars and highly aggressive. Ironic considering the title of the post
- KittenInABox 3y ago
  What's ironic about it?
  - jdietrich 3y ago
    Narcissism and psychopathy are recognised psychiatric disorders. It is a breach of psychiatric ethics to give a professional opinion on anyone who you have not personally assessed (the Goldwater rule). Wealthy and successful people are probably slightly more prone to exhibiting the behaviours associated with those disorders, but the evidence base for this is low quality. If there is a difference then it's fairly subtle; there's certainly no clinical evidence to suggest that the ultra-rich are significantly different in their psychological makeup from the ordinarily wealthy. It's a bit odd to call for fairness and kindness, while in the same breath dismissing a diverse group of people as essentially being irredeemably evil based on little more than speculation. It seems particularly weird to conflate Bill Gates and Roman Abramovich, when the only thing they really have in common is that they're very wealthy.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
mcint 3y ago
"[And no further.]" This musing couldn't be appreciated without (historically) grossly wasteful computing. It's marginal whether you could justify India's green revolution on the premise of the article. Reminds me of KSR's pessimism in "Ministry for the Future". I'm glad we got mobile phones and computers, to help us tabulate and appreciate this disparity, before we prevent further useless use of resources.
0wis 3y ago
I do not know why the post is flagged, but I am not surprised as I only see a weak link between the article and the title and it is definitely political. And I am surprised so few comments are about the content. However, the subject is still interesting. We have a fairness problem with the carbon footprint of the wealthy but we have no good solutions for now. I am sure technology can help, but polical and social work will be needed too.

20 points by devonnull 3y ago

[dead]

No, but it's dangerous to grant it to people who don't reciprocate. One of the diversity officers at my company was recently discovered to have been embezzling money from the company, cloaking oneself in noble moral intentions and telling a satisfying moral story is just that: speech. We need to see folks demonstrate good faith before inviting them into a system of trade for mutual benefit.

davorak 3y ago
> We need to see folks demonstrate good faith before inviting them into a system of trade for mutual benefit. Starting form zero a society where everyone follows this to the letter can not get started since there is no record of actions yet for people to judge people by. Experimentally extending trust/opportunities in perhaps a limited fashion is one way to get the ball rolling on this
withinboredom 3y ago
And if people are waiting for you to replicate, when will there ever be any trust?

tombert 3y ago

I got my iPhone stolen from me a few months ago in a sort of mugging. I say "sort of", because it wasn't really violent, I wasn't injured, but rather two teenagers (I'd say roughly 17-18) came up to me, one asked if he could call his mom, I tell him that I'll call her on speaker phone, I unlock my phone, then his friend grabs my phone, the first guy shoves me, and they run away. I didn't chase after them because I had no idea if they had a knife or anything. [1] That really sucked, I liked that phone, but the part that sucked worse was everyone felt compelled to give me a long victim-blamey lecture about how you can't trust anyone and that I shouldn't have unlocked my phone, and that they would never fall for anything like that. Usually I just rolled my eyes with this, but eventually one person wouldn't relent, constantly explaining that in NYC this is something you gotta know, despite the fact that I have lived in NYC longer than this person. Eventually I responded back with "you know, I appreciate the lecture, but having empathy isn't a weakness you fucking moron. If I was stuck in Manhattan without a phone I would want someone to help me. I guess I just thought it was right to pay it forward. I'm sorry that you don't feel that way". For some reason, that guy hasn't talked to me since. [1] Before I get a bunch of suggestions, I did report the phone as stolen on the FindMy app, and I filed a police report with the IMEI.

rainonmoon 3y ago
Yeah those people can go screw (respectfully, I mean; I'm sure some are your friends.) Sorry that happened to you, but for what it's worth, this internet stranger would've done exactly the same thing, and I think your reasoning is sound.
- tombert 3y ago
  I mean, I don't think that they meant anything by it. I just think it's easy for them to be in positions of judgement when nothing like that has happened to them. I probably shouldn't have called the guy a fucking moron, I was just frustrated because everyone was giving me the same lecture.
blablablerg 3y ago
(Too much) empathy can definitely be a weakness. It is situational however, in a safe and peaceful environment it is beneficial and helpful, in less fortunate environments it can make you a target.
- withinboredom 3y ago
  Too much of anything can be a weakness. If you blow up whenever someone makes a mom joke at your (mom's) expense ... that can be used against you. It takes a cool head to prevail in these situations and defensive thinking. He could have asked the kids to back up, ensuring he had enough space and time to react if they tried something. You can still help people and remain wary of them.
- 0wis 3y ago
  According to game theory, you should have empathy but not too much. Its such a powerful theoretical finding for every aspect of life. I found it best explained in the Veritasium video on game theory [1] [1]: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM&pp=ygUfZ2FtZSB0aGVvcnkgaGlzdG9yeSB0aXQgZm9yIHRhdA%3D%3D https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mScpHTIi-kM&pp=ygUfZ2FtZSB0aGV...
mostofemlolz 3y ago

johnvak01 3y ago

[dead]

oatmeal1 3y ago

> Billionaires are Machiavellian, psychopathic, and narcissistic, according to psychological research. They are malevolent self-promoters, emotionally cold, nonstop liars and highly aggressive. Ironic considering the title of the post

KittenInABox 3y ago
What's ironic about it?
- jdietrich 3y ago
  Narcissism and psychopathy are recognised psychiatric disorders. It is a breach of psychiatric ethics to give a professional opinion on anyone who you have not personally assessed (the Goldwater rule). Wealthy and successful people are probably slightly more prone to exhibiting the behaviours associated with those disorders, but the evidence base for this is low quality. If there is a difference then it's fairly subtle; there's certainly no clinical evidence to suggest that the ultra-rich are significantly different in their psychological makeup from the ordinarily wealthy. It's a bit odd to call for fairness and kindness, while in the same breath dismissing a diverse group of people as essentially being irredeemably evil based on little more than speculation. It seems particularly weird to conflate Bill Gates and Roman Abramovich, when the only thing they really have in common is that they're very wealthy.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

mcint 3y ago

"[And no further.]" This musing couldn't be appreciated without (historically) grossly wasteful computing. It's marginal whether you could justify India's green revolution on the premise of the article. Reminds me of KSR's pessimism in "Ministry for the Future". I'm glad we got mobile phones and computers, to help us tabulate and appreciate this disparity, before we prevent further useless use of resources.

0wis 3y ago

I do not know why the post is flagged, but I am not surprised as I only see a weak link between the article and the title and it is definitely political. And I am surprised so few comments are about the content. However, the subject is still interesting. We have a fairness problem with the carbon footprint of the wealthy but we have no good solutions for now. I am sure technology can help, but polical and social work will be needed too.