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If this helps China ween itself from coal faster then it's a huge win for the entire planet. I know there's a lot of hate for nuclear (much of it understandabl
by pstuart 3y ago
If this helps China ween itself from coal faster then it's a huge win for the entire planet.
I know there's a lot of hate for nuclear (much of it understandable), but if we hadn't fucked it up in the 70's then climate change would not be a thing right now.
Yes, renewables and energy storage are good things too but the modern world is built on cheap energy and the more the merrier.
Side note: I became enamored with LFTR when it started getting promoted back in the day and I still think that too would be worth tackling.
- Krasnol 3y ago> Yes, renewables and energy storage are good things too but the modern world is built on cheap energy and the more the merrier. Yes, this is also why China invests more into renewables than in nuclear: https://cleantechnica.com/2023/02/06/renewables-in-china-trend-upward-while-nuclear-trends-flat/ https://cleantechnica.com/2023/02/06/renewables-in-china-tre...
- melling 3y agoChina installed more renewable energy in 2023 than the United States has installed in its entire history.
- pstuart 3y agoYes, and that's great. But coal is still king and the enemy of coal is our friend: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-source-and-country?stackMode=absolute&country=~CHN https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/energy-consumption-by-sou... It shouldn't be an either or equation. It should be yes, and.
- melling 3y agoYes, globally we are using more coal now than ever. And fossil fuel usage is still increasing. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/world-oil-gas-coal-demand-peak-by-2030-iea-says-2023-10-24/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/world-oil-gas-coal-d...
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- jansan 3y agoYou know, if parts of your country are as south as the Sahara desert, it just makes a lot of sense to install solar. Just like solar makes a lot more sense in the US than in Germany, which is more to the north than all parts of the US except Alaska and the most northern parts of WA/MT/ND/MN.
- pstuart 3y agoI am as pro-solar as can be, and am thrilled by the decreased costs and increased installation. I think every building where possible should have solar on it. Carports, agrivoltaics, etc. It's a no-brainer in addressing climate change, reducing energy costs, and more self-sufficiency. But not all the world has such solar profiles and there are also (addressable) issues with solar (storage, grid integration). This isn't a "pick one" problem. It's about feeding an energy hungry planet without cooking it, and every non carbon source should be embraced.
- jiggawatts 3y agoThe problem with this logic is that solar + storage is still cheaper than nuclear.
- jupp0r 3y agoI don't think that's generally true, especially if you build nuclear as cost effectively as China does.
- matthewdgreen 3y agoChina is building vastly more solar and wind than they are solar. And nuclear construction has slowed down noticeably as wind+PV has accelerated in the past few years.
- defrost 3y agoThe International Energy Agency (IEA) World Energy Outlook 2023 report outlines China has having an extensive expansion of both nuclear and renewables driving a decrease in China's coal use mid this decade. It also asserts that China is behind 30% of all new nuclear power builds (under construction). https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/uncertainty-is-key-ieas-hopes-chinas-energy-transition-russell-2023-10-24/ https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/uncertainty-is-key-i... https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2023/executive-summary https://www.iea.org/reports/world-energy-outlook-2023/execut... (D/L full 355 page PDF) https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/42b23c45-78bc-4482-b0f9-eb826ae2da3d/WorldEnergyOutlook2023.pdf https://iea.blob.core.windows.net/assets/42b23c45-78bc-4482-...
- osigurdson 3y agoIt is also building more coal plants than anyone else. https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-six-times-more-new-coal-plants-than-other-countries-report-fin https://www.npr.org/2023/03/02/1160441919/china-is-building-...
- gtvwill 3y agoHuman health cost of global warming isn't exactly cheap. Delayed costs are still costs. It's just my generation and my kids who have to pay while my parents generation reaped the rewards and profits up front. I, like many of my peers feel like we are being grifted by the boomer generation.
- The_Colonel 3y agoYou're also reaping the advantages produced by the boomer generation in technology, medicine etc. to which they themselves did not have access (or had, but much later in life). In any case, it's disappointing to see how people are so quick to jump at any opportunity to stereotype and hate a group of people, this time not identified by their skin, but their date of birth...
- gtvwill 3y ago[flagged]
- screye 3y agoThat bit is obvious. The next generation benefits from the innovations of the previous generation. But boomers knew about global warming, and refused to do even the bare minimum to help curb it. (More highways, gas guzzlers galore, effectively ban nuclear, anti sustainable urban development) Even the one positive assertion comes with asterisks. The boomers oversaw a lengthy defunding of federal programs while wealth kept accumulating at the very top of this nation. So the resulting economic benefits haven't been all that useful to the rest of America. Ofc, no individual bears the sin of an entire era. But we need to recognize the inherent selfishness of that era nevertheless.
- fastball 3y agoHonestly the hate for nuclear isn't understandable at all. It has killed very few people, expense isn't a reason for hate, and everything else has pretty much been a win (land usage minimal, minimal byproducts, etc).
- jiggawatts 3y agoFusion power research in the EU is going to cost something like 100B euro for ITER + DEMO. No useful amount of power production is planned for decades. Meanwhile, that money could have purchased solar + wind that would provide something like a third or even half of Europe’s electricity needs! That’s not even factoring in ongoing cost reductions over those same decades. Fission has the same problem: it’s expensive power in the distant future versus cheap power available now.
- jliptzin 3y agoAre we foregoing solar+wind in Europe because that money was diverted to fusion research or is it due to other reasons?
- einpoklum 3y agoIndeed, that's a false dilemma. I could just as well have argued that the money has gone to bailing out banks, or to funding the war in Ukraine, or whatever. Not to mention that money itself is a social construct; it is created by banks and/or the state. If a (sovereign) state wants to, it can print money. Of course this has risks, and sometimes results in currency devaluation (not as frequently as some believe), but it's another way in which one can't claim that "country C invested this much money in A instead of investing in B".
- jupp0r 3y agoFusion power research is research. It's not meant to produce electricity but knowledge.
- jiggawatts 3y ago
- ViewTrick1002 3y agoChina is also building enough renewable power than their grid expansion rate leading to a structural decline in CO2 emissions [1]. At the same time the utilization factors of the coal plants reduce each year. This is driven purely by economic factors, for the first time since the discovery of fossil fuels, except the blip where we dammed up pretty much every single river globally to provide hydropower, we have in renewables have found a new cheaper energy source. Renewables are cheap energy. [1]: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carbon-emissions-set-for-structural-decline-from-next-year https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/nov/13/chinas-carb...