6 ms·

It's always interesting to see people complain about linux installation without mentioning the distro chosen and what they did.

pjmlp 3y ago
Ubuntu mostly, and I have plenty of experience with Linux distros since Slackware 2.0 in 1995, so no need for the typical answer that I am holding it wrong, once upon a time I jumped across distros on regular basis.
- Almondsetat 3y ago
  If you have hardware that has linux support then everything should work at install time or after install. Ubuntu also has a dedicated program to show you the available proprietary drivers you might want to use. Unless you your hardware is so new that it requires the very latest kernel then you should be golden.
  - pjmlp 3y ago
    Thanks for the typical Linux forum reply, not even mentioning that I have Linux experience since 1995 was enough to avoid it.
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      Avoiding providing details is what gets you the standard Linux forum reply. Generic complaints foster generic replies
      - pjmlp 3y ago
        This is going the Slashdot way, thanks for bringing up some nostalgia back.
        olddustytrail 3y ago
        Yeah, by now we all know about your personal issues with Linus, we don't need to hear it on every single thread.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Like the personal issues Linux fanboys have with Microsoft, Apple and Google? Threads are written not spoken, if you don't want to read them press PgDn.
        olddustytrail 3y ago
        [flagged]
        pjmlp 3y ago
        I use the vocabulary that people in the school playground are able to understand, after all nowadays it is all about inclusion.
        nuancebydefault 3y ago
        Linus or Linux?
  - louthy 3y ago
    > If you have hardware that has linux support then everything should work at install time or after install. So, if you buy something that works, it will work, and if you buy something that doesn't work, it won't. Wow, what insight. It really does boggle the mind why people don't just buy things that work. Am I right!?!
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      If you have hardware that is not supported no amount of complaining or forum searching will help. So either you just like to complain about unfixable things or you are unaware that once you discover your hardware is not supported you should stop wasting time on forums and go back to your working Windows environment
      - bongodongobob 3y ago
        The issue is that discovering whether or not it is incompatible is unclear. It's never "this doesn't work on Linux". It's "This SMBus driver is only supported by version 10.1 of arcane library. It will work but first you have to swap out this shim for another one and configure dpkg to never upgrade it. However, this requires that your kernel needs to be compiled with flags foo, bar, and baz. Oh btw, your CPU doesn't support those instructions lol." I'm being hyperbolic, but it's usually that after some banging your head against the wall you find that, yeah, it could work, but I'm not compiling custom shit to get my function key light working.
  - nuancebydefault 3y ago
    The thing is, usually you just have hardware (a given) and want to (re) install an os on it that works. Each time i installed a Linux on a machine there were some issues like for example hibernate not working, my usb drive not working when connecting to a hub, the boot manager not showing, the laptop keyboard not working, etc.
louthy 3y ago
That just isn’t important. The point is that the average non-techy person would be overwhelmed by the average Linux install. Regardless of distro. That’s Linux’s biggest cross to bear
- Almondsetat 3y ago
  Seems like an excuse to hide what you did and claim your problems to be universal
  - louthy 3y ago
    Believe what you like. I’m trying make a serious point.
    - Almondsetat 3y ago
      Making a serious point and witholding important information is an oxymoron
      - louthy 3y ago
        Have you thought of joining a Linux support forum from the 90s? You'd fit in really well.
        fsflover 3y ago
        Unlike the other commenter, you make personal attacks here and yet you are too convinced about your high ground.
        louthy 3y ago
        > "Seems like an excuse to hide what you did and claim your problems to be universal" He literally tried to imply incompetence. That is a personal attack. When the entire point of this thread was to empathise with non-techy people installing and setting up a Linux distro. It's not about me, I'm able to resolve issues that come up with the myriad operating-systems I've used in the four decades of using and programming computers. Instead this commenter got into one of those "my operating system is better than your operating system" childish positions and trying to question my competence rather than deal with the point. Really, I was trying to state that Linux (all distros) still have some ways to go before the average human would be comfortable with it - especially once you fall off the happy path. The things that make Linux strong for the power user (myriad choices for everything, open-source, CLI driven) are not at all what normal humans want - they don't want a million options, they don't want to run scripts, they couldn't care less about the open-sourciness (other than it's free), etc. The motivations and incentives are different. And for sure, Windows and OSX have their own problems, but mostly you stay on the happy path because they always have the drivers made for them, which means it's rare that a device or something doesn't work. And if something does go wrong then there's usually either the vendor (who sold them the device) or a single place on the internet to go to find out how to resolve. This whole thread from my original comment down shows exactly how far away from the average user the Linux community still is. The default answer when someone has problems is "well, stop being so shit, be better - it's your fault". Or, "I've never had that issue, you're an idiot". Of course those are sweeping generalisations, and I've made the point elsewhere that the Linux community has made great strides - but if we're ever going to have the year of the Linux desktop (I mean real Windows-denting momentum, not just the odd Linux laptop) then more needs to be done, and some of the shitty attitudes need to change. Sent from my Linux Distro.
bongodongobob 3y ago
But that's like, part of the issue. "Oh, you just used the wrong Linux. You really should use X with Y blah blah..." There is no "wrong Windows". Ubuntu desktop might be the closest to just works, but I'm getting more and more averse to its quirks and will likely find myself back on Debian soon. That's just part of Linux's charm I guess.
- dijit 3y ago
  Oh, there is “wrong” windows: aside from the fact you usually dont install it yourself so your edition is chosen. For example Server versions are rarely what you want, or business versions, or IoT versions “Why do I require an online account” (pro? business? enterprise?), “why does this game not work (windows media player being unavailable means certain videos in game engines like Unreal can never play ;))”, “why cant I keep using Windows 7? the new one has a weird taskbar and hid stuff again!” I get that theres fewer choice and its made for you, but if it hadn't been made for you its actually much more difficult to get it right as a non-tech
  - bongodongobob 3y ago
    Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about and I don't share the same experience. I have 20+ years of experience with Windows and Linux. I've installed Windows 7-11 on entire fleets. I've run multiple corporate-wide Windows upgrade projects for multiple companies and environments. I've built gold images and templates for Citrix and VDI environments. There really is no hardware configuration needed at all. I've never had any problems running games or any software in Windows due to drivers or configuration issues. In fact, I run all my creative software specifically in Windows because there's nothing to think about at all. The only time I've had any kind of hardware or driver issues is with external hardware like testing apparatuses or machinery. I haven't had to mess with drivers in Windows in probably 10 years or more.
    - dijit 3y ago
      and? I have also run windows and linux for a long time, server contexts and otherwise (hence why I am aware of that Windows Media bug btw). My personal experience with Linux has been plug and play ever since NDISwrapper wasnt needed for wifi anymore, and aside from some extra repos needed in Fedora for Nvidia. Windows on the other hand had no official public ISO image and we resorted to sharing it around inside Ubisoft because it was annoying to get a new copy of, we had a blessed version which had the issue of not coming with directX, so we had to copy it from someones desktop windows to get our gameservers running. Glad you had a good experience, but mine was better in a professional setting with Linux than windows: and I knew more about what I was doing than most. However: we are mostly talking about desktops, and i was mainly pointing out that most windows users don't have to go to MSDN and get an ISO for their machine or drivers: so safe choices are already made. That doesn’t mean it would be easier given the same non-installed circumstances for the common user.
M95D 3y ago
As if there's more than one: gnu. Yeah, there's more than one if you count Gentoo, OpenWrt and Linux from scratch.

pjmlp 3y ago

Ubuntu mostly, and I have plenty of experience with Linux distros since Slackware 2.0 in 1995, so no need for the typical answer that I am holding it wrong, once upon a time I jumped across distros on regular basis.

Almondsetat 3y ago
If you have hardware that has linux support then everything should work at install time or after install. Ubuntu also has a dedicated program to show you the available proprietary drivers you might want to use. Unless you your hardware is so new that it requires the very latest kernel then you should be golden.
- pjmlp 3y ago
  Thanks for the typical Linux forum reply, not even mentioning that I have Linux experience since 1995 was enough to avoid it.
  - Almondsetat 3y ago
    Avoiding providing details is what gets you the standard Linux forum reply. Generic complaints foster generic replies
    - pjmlp 3y ago
      This is going the Slashdot way, thanks for bringing up some nostalgia back.
      - olddustytrail 3y ago
        Yeah, by now we all know about your personal issues with Linus, we don't need to hear it on every single thread.
        pjmlp 3y ago
        Like the personal issues Linux fanboys have with Microsoft, Apple and Google? Threads are written not spoken, if you don't want to read them press PgDn.
        olddustytrail 3y ago
        [flagged]
        pjmlp 3y ago
        I use the vocabulary that people in the school playground are able to understand, after all nowadays it is all about inclusion.
        nuancebydefault 3y ago
        Linus or Linux?
- louthy 3y ago
  > If you have hardware that has linux support then everything should work at install time or after install. So, if you buy something that works, it will work, and if you buy something that doesn't work, it won't. Wow, what insight. It really does boggle the mind why people don't just buy things that work. Am I right!?!
  - Almondsetat 3y ago
    If you have hardware that is not supported no amount of complaining or forum searching will help. So either you just like to complain about unfixable things or you are unaware that once you discover your hardware is not supported you should stop wasting time on forums and go back to your working Windows environment
    - bongodongobob 3y ago
      The issue is that discovering whether or not it is incompatible is unclear. It's never "this doesn't work on Linux". It's "This SMBus driver is only supported by version 10.1 of arcane library. It will work but first you have to swap out this shim for another one and configure dpkg to never upgrade it. However, this requires that your kernel needs to be compiled with flags foo, bar, and baz. Oh btw, your CPU doesn't support those instructions lol." I'm being hyperbolic, but it's usually that after some banging your head against the wall you find that, yeah, it could work, but I'm not compiling custom shit to get my function key light working.
- nuancebydefault 3y ago
  The thing is, usually you just have hardware (a given) and want to (re) install an os on it that works. Each time i installed a Linux on a machine there were some issues like for example hibernate not working, my usb drive not working when connecting to a hub, the boot manager not showing, the laptop keyboard not working, etc.

louthy 3y ago

That just isn’t important. The point is that the average non-techy person would be overwhelmed by the average Linux install. Regardless of distro. That’s Linux’s biggest cross to bear

Almondsetat 3y ago
Seems like an excuse to hide what you did and claim your problems to be universal
- louthy 3y ago
  Believe what you like. I’m trying make a serious point.
  - Almondsetat 3y ago
    Making a serious point and witholding important information is an oxymoron
    - louthy 3y ago
      Have you thought of joining a Linux support forum from the 90s? You'd fit in really well.
      - fsflover 3y ago
        Unlike the other commenter, you make personal attacks here and yet you are too convinced about your high ground.
        louthy 3y ago
        > "Seems like an excuse to hide what you did and claim your problems to be universal" He literally tried to imply incompetence. That is a personal attack. When the entire point of this thread was to empathise with non-techy people installing and setting up a Linux distro. It's not about me, I'm able to resolve issues that come up with the myriad operating-systems I've used in the four decades of using and programming computers. Instead this commenter got into one of those "my operating system is better than your operating system" childish positions and trying to question my competence rather than deal with the point. Really, I was trying to state that Linux (all distros) still have some ways to go before the average human would be comfortable with it - especially once you fall off the happy path. The things that make Linux strong for the power user (myriad choices for everything, open-source, CLI driven) are not at all what normal humans want - they don't want a million options, they don't want to run scripts, they couldn't care less about the open-sourciness (other than it's free), etc. The motivations and incentives are different. And for sure, Windows and OSX have their own problems, but mostly you stay on the happy path because they always have the drivers made for them, which means it's rare that a device or something doesn't work. And if something does go wrong then there's usually either the vendor (who sold them the device) or a single place on the internet to go to find out how to resolve. This whole thread from my original comment down shows exactly how far away from the average user the Linux community still is. The default answer when someone has problems is "well, stop being so shit, be better - it's your fault". Or, "I've never had that issue, you're an idiot". Of course those are sweeping generalisations, and I've made the point elsewhere that the Linux community has made great strides - but if we're ever going to have the year of the Linux desktop (I mean real Windows-denting momentum, not just the odd Linux laptop) then more needs to be done, and some of the shitty attitudes need to change. Sent from my Linux Distro.

bongodongobob 3y ago

But that's like, part of the issue. "Oh, you just used the wrong Linux. You really should use X with Y blah blah..." There is no "wrong Windows". Ubuntu desktop might be the closest to just works, but I'm getting more and more averse to its quirks and will likely find myself back on Debian soon. That's just part of Linux's charm I guess.

dijit 3y ago
Oh, there is “wrong” windows: aside from the fact you usually dont install it yourself so your edition is chosen. For example Server versions are rarely what you want, or business versions, or IoT versions “Why do I require an online account” (pro? business? enterprise?), “why does this game not work (windows media player being unavailable means certain videos in game engines like Unreal can never play ;))”, “why cant I keep using Windows 7? the new one has a weird taskbar and hid stuff again!” I get that theres fewer choice and its made for you, but if it hadn't been made for you its actually much more difficult to get it right as a non-tech
- bongodongobob 3y ago
  Yeah, that's not what I'm talking about and I don't share the same experience. I have 20+ years of experience with Windows and Linux. I've installed Windows 7-11 on entire fleets. I've run multiple corporate-wide Windows upgrade projects for multiple companies and environments. I've built gold images and templates for Citrix and VDI environments. There really is no hardware configuration needed at all. I've never had any problems running games or any software in Windows due to drivers or configuration issues. In fact, I run all my creative software specifically in Windows because there's nothing to think about at all. The only time I've had any kind of hardware or driver issues is with external hardware like testing apparatuses or machinery. I haven't had to mess with drivers in Windows in probably 10 years or more.
  - dijit 3y ago
    and? I have also run windows and linux for a long time, server contexts and otherwise (hence why I am aware of that Windows Media bug btw). My personal experience with Linux has been plug and play ever since NDISwrapper wasnt needed for wifi anymore, and aside from some extra repos needed in Fedora for Nvidia. Windows on the other hand had no official public ISO image and we resorted to sharing it around inside Ubisoft because it was annoying to get a new copy of, we had a blessed version which had the issue of not coming with directX, so we had to copy it from someones desktop windows to get our gameservers running. Glad you had a good experience, but mine was better in a professional setting with Linux than windows: and I knew more about what I was doing than most. However: we are mostly talking about desktops, and i was mainly pointing out that most windows users don't have to go to MSDN and get an ISO for their machine or drivers: so safe choices are already made. That doesn’t mean it would be easier given the same non-installed circumstances for the common user.

M95D 3y ago

As if there's more than one: gnu. Yeah, there's more than one if you count Gentoo, OpenWrt and Linux from scratch.