4 ms·

The old XC60 can do 50km on 9.1kWh of battery - that’s 18kWh per 100km - IMO that’s super optimistic for an SUV of that size (and assumes no heating, AC, lights

by manmal 3y ago

The old XC60 can do 50km on 9.1kWh of battery - that’s 18kWh per 100km - IMO that’s super optimistic for an SUV of that size (and assumes no heating, AC, lights etc), but let’s assume it holds. The BYD can do 180km on a 50kWh battery, that’s 28kWh per 100km. How did you arrive at 5x worse? It’s not even 2x worse. And again, I don’t buy the 50km claim from Volvo, outside of perfect conditions (eg daytime in May, no rain, no AC, low air resistance).

gambiting 3y ago
I have done 52km in the past before the ICE kicked in(in perfect conditons, but yes). >>How did you arrive at 5x worse You have two cars, they both are fully charged and fueled up. They both drive 1000km and then stop. They both burnt 75 litres of petrol, but one used 10kWh of electricity, the other used 50kWh of electricity. How much more electricity has the second car used Vs the first one?
- manmal 3y ago
  Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh. On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gasoline/Diesel. The charging functionality is just a bonus for hybrids (I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in). Primarily, the battery serves to conserve energy while decelerating. The BYD obviously also uses the battery as a buffer for its range extender, but the Volvo doesn’t do that.
  - gambiting 3y ago
    >>Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required No, I'm literally going off what the manufacturer said - 1000km range when the battery charge and fuel tank are combined. That's it. People keep making comparisons for shorter trips, for driving with an empty battery, for driving on battery range only etc etc etc - all of it misses the point I'm making. >>I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in). If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all? If you have a PHEV and never plug it in, then your efficiency will be worse than that of a simple MHEV or even a straight up ICE-only car.
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - manmal 3y ago
      > That's it. We can’t compare the full 1k to 1k km yet because EPA ratings aren’t out - the BYD might as well make 100km more than the Volvo with 75L. > If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all? Subsidies + CO2 ratings (important for EU). PHEV is a green washing ploy IMO. Plugging in every day is hard enough as it is, I’ve had a fully electric Ioniq for 3 years. I don’t believe many people will do that for just 36 miles (20 in winter), every day. A big chunk of owners don’t even have the infrastructure to charge daily. With an EV you are also often forced to look for destination charging, but with an PHEV it’s perfectly fine to skip that - and people do.
      - gambiting 3y ago
        >>We can’t compare the full 1k to 1k km yet because EPA ratings aren’t out True >>PHEV is a green washing ploy IMO. Plugging in every day is hard enough as it is So I disagree in the sense that they do work absolutely amazing if your usecase works for what they offer. Our Volvo does 20-30 miles in EV mode, but that covers my driving needs every day, and we have a charging point outside of the house, so plugging it in every day is literally not a problem. In consequence this car just doesn't use any fuel - I drive it every day but fill it up maybe once every 3 months. In fact the main argument for buying it was how much it was going to save us every month on fuel compared to our last car - which turned out true, the savings more than offset the larger finance cost of buying it. But on the other hand, I know someone who owns one living in an apartment in a big city, without any good way to charge it - in that case it's an idiotic thing to own, he's basically lugging around 400kg battery pack, ruining his economy, for no reason at all. >>but with an PHEV it’s perfectly fine to skip that - and people do. Maybe some do - I wouldn't stop at a hotel without charging point, because even though the range is only 20-30 miles in EV mode it makes a really big impact on overal economy.

by manmal 3y ago

gambiting 3y ago

I have done 52km in the past before the ICE kicked in(in perfect conditons, but yes). >>How did you arrive at 5x worse You have two cars, they both are fully charged and fueled up. They both drive 1000km and then stop. They both burnt 75 litres of petrol, but one used 10kWh of electricity, the other used 50kWh of electricity. How much more electricity has the second car used Vs the first one?

manmal 3y ago
Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required. Also, the fact that the BYD is 5x more electricity costs is almost irrelevant for a 1k km trip, because there‘s just an $8 difference for the whole trip, assuming $0.2 per kWh. On shorter trips, the BYD will come out on top because it can go on battery for way longer, which is (even at 27kWh/100km) cheaper than the Volvo on gasoline/Diesel. The charging functionality is just a bonus for hybrids (I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in). Primarily, the battery serves to conserve energy while decelerating. The BYD obviously also uses the battery as a buffer for its range extender, but the Volvo doesn’t do that.
- gambiting 3y ago
  >>Well you‘re making the error of assuming that charging the PHEV before a trip is required No, I'm literally going off what the manufacturer said - 1000km range when the battery charge and fuel tank are combined. That's it. People keep making comparisons for shorter trips, for driving with an empty battery, for driving on battery range only etc etc etc - all of it misses the point I'm making. >>I doubt many people drive a big part of their mileage electric by plugging in). If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all? If you have a PHEV and never plug it in, then your efficiency will be worse than that of a simple MHEV or even a straight up ICE-only car.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - manmal 3y ago
    > That's it. We can’t compare the full 1k to 1k km yet because EPA ratings aren’t out - the BYD might as well make 100km more than the Volvo with 75L. > If they don't, then why buy a PHEV at all? Subsidies + CO2 ratings (important for EU). PHEV is a green washing ploy IMO. Plugging in every day is hard enough as it is, I’ve had a fully electric Ioniq for 3 years. I don’t believe many people will do that for just 36 miles (20 in winter), every day. A big chunk of owners don’t even have the infrastructure to charge daily. With an EV you are also often forced to look for destination charging, but with an PHEV it’s perfectly fine to skip that - and people do.
    - gambiting 3y ago
      >>We can’t compare the full 1k to 1k km yet because EPA ratings aren’t out True >>PHEV is a green washing ploy IMO. Plugging in every day is hard enough as it is So I disagree in the sense that they do work absolutely amazing if your usecase works for what they offer. Our Volvo does 20-30 miles in EV mode, but that covers my driving needs every day, and we have a charging point outside of the house, so plugging it in every day is literally not a problem. In consequence this car just doesn't use any fuel - I drive it every day but fill it up maybe once every 3 months. In fact the main argument for buying it was how much it was going to save us every month on fuel compared to our last car - which turned out true, the savings more than offset the larger finance cost of buying it. But on the other hand, I know someone who owns one living in an apartment in a big city, without any good way to charge it - in that case it's an idiotic thing to own, he's basically lugging around 400kg battery pack, ruining his economy, for no reason at all. >>but with an PHEV it’s perfectly fine to skip that - and people do. Maybe some do - I wouldn't stop at a hotel without charging point, because even though the range is only 20-30 miles in EV mode it makes a really big impact on overal economy.