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There's group-think alright, but I'm not seeing it where you think it is. The medical system in the U.S. is awful, and it really is broken that it is tied to a

There's group-think alright, but I'm not seeing it where you think it is. The medical system in the U.S. is awful, and it really is broken that it is tied to a job. A system where you need to be well enough to work to get care to work is obviously not ideal.

edgyquant 3y ago
The US has government provided healthcare as well for people without jobs or with a low enough income level. It isn’t “tied to your work” that’s just one of many ways in which people choose to get healthcare.
- spamizbad 3y ago
  Medicaid is pretty complex and runs afoul of you accidentally having too much income or assets despite being functionally low income. When used car prices started trending upward during the pandemic people actually got kicked off medicaid rolls because their vehicle was now too valuable of an asset to make them eligible for benefits. Means-testing is just a very inefficient, clumsy way of providing benefits to people and functionally operates as a tax on those who would benefit from the service but would fail the test.
  - gorjusborg 3y ago
    I've never understood how the right-wing thinks that having a government agency work to determine if people are 'poor enough' to 'earn the right' to have healthcare provided is an efficient use of resources. Seems backwards to me. If we want people to be able to work, basic health is a requirement.
    - Alpha3031 3y ago
      A cynic would say that the right-wing isn't about efficient use of resources, it's about a justice where some people deserve to be kept trodden down even if it costs more to do so.
cduzz 3y ago
Is it tied to employment or is it tied to insurance companies who make it punitively expensive to get insurance without being in a group, and that group is typically "employers" ? My wife runs a business and employs, typically, only 1 or 2 people; when they started asking for health insurance we found that getting insurance (as a business) was actually not terribly expensive; at the same time my insurance plans have gotten progressively more crappy. I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it."
- toast0 3y ago
  > I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it." Take a look at your state's healthcare marketplace site. You should be able to browse plans if you put in your county/zip code and participant ages. Marketplace plans can't charge based on health history, and at least in my area, they all seem to cover the minimum required services and nothing else; they compete on networks and copay/coinsurance. It's not the giant morass of pain that it used to be, but it's still somewhat of a pain, and often employer based plans are better; especially in terms of networks and out of area coverage.

edgyquant 3y ago

The US has government provided healthcare as well for people without jobs or with a low enough income level. It isn’t “tied to your work” that’s just one of many ways in which people choose to get healthcare.

spamizbad 3y ago
Medicaid is pretty complex and runs afoul of you accidentally having too much income or assets despite being functionally low income. When used car prices started trending upward during the pandemic people actually got kicked off medicaid rolls because their vehicle was now too valuable of an asset to make them eligible for benefits. Means-testing is just a very inefficient, clumsy way of providing benefits to people and functionally operates as a tax on those who would benefit from the service but would fail the test.
- gorjusborg 3y ago
  I've never understood how the right-wing thinks that having a government agency work to determine if people are 'poor enough' to 'earn the right' to have healthcare provided is an efficient use of resources. Seems backwards to me. If we want people to be able to work, basic health is a requirement.
  - Alpha3031 3y ago
    A cynic would say that the right-wing isn't about efficient use of resources, it's about a justice where some people deserve to be kept trodden down even if it costs more to do so.

cduzz 3y ago

Is it tied to employment or is it tied to insurance companies who make it punitively expensive to get insurance without being in a group, and that group is typically "employers" ? My wife runs a business and employs, typically, only 1 or 2 people; when they started asking for health insurance we found that getting insurance (as a business) was actually not terribly expensive; at the same time my insurance plans have gotten progressively more crappy. I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it."

toast0 3y ago
> I can't remember, or be bothered to find out -- how expensive is it these days to just get private insurance in the USA if you've got 3 hideously expensive pre existing conditions? I have some vague recollection that the obamacare thing requires that insurance companies offer coverage to people without regard to those preexisting conditions, and intuitively that seems "fair" but it's all such a pile of crap it's frustrating to dig through and demotivating. I assume "that's the way they like it." Take a look at your state's healthcare marketplace site. You should be able to browse plans if you put in your county/zip code and participant ages. Marketplace plans can't charge based on health history, and at least in my area, they all seem to cover the minimum required services and nothing else; they compete on networks and copay/coinsurance. It's not the giant morass of pain that it used to be, but it's still somewhat of a pain, and often employer based plans are better; especially in terms of networks and out of area coverage.