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No? The problem of evil is applicable to any religion that claims that an omnipotent and omniscient creator of the world exists, which many strands of Hinduism

No? The problem of evil is applicable to any religion that claims that an omnipotent and omniscient creator of the world exists, which many strands of Hinduism do. The doctrine of karma is a good attempt but it still doesn't solve it. In fact, I think it was a scholar from Jainism, a religion that does believe in Karma, who raised this a version of this the problem of evil against theistic schools of Indian philosophy in mediaeval times, independently from the Greek philosopher who first raised it.

lelanthran 3y ago
> No? The problem of evil is applicable to any religion that claims that an omnipotent and omniscient creator of the world exists, which many strands of Hinduism do. It's mostly the religions descending from the Abrahamic belief system that holds the concept of evil as a central belief and holds the concept of an ultimate evil personified as a central belief, and offers itself as the only way to escape punishment for all evils. As I understand it[1], the concept of "evil" cannot exist in any belief system that is built around the concept of a reincarnation which depends on the way the person lived their life. If you believe, as most orthodox Hinduism strands do, that you are reincarnated and move up or down the ladder of greatness (ants vs humans, poverty vs wealth, etc) depending on how you lived, then there is no such thing as "evil". You simply get what's required to ensure balance. IOW, "you always get what you give" is not a punishment at all for doing "evil" things, because "you always get what you give" doesn't require the concept of evil or good to simply return what you doled out when you are reincarnated. Think of it as balance - each act you do (consider good/evil on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being evil) will eventually balance out some other act you do or did in a previous incarnation, and if not, will be balanced out by some future act in a future incarnation. [1] I'm an atheist, and as such much more aware of what and how different religions supply a "belief system" than followers of those religions themselves.
- I_Am_Nous 3y ago
  If everything zeroing out means there is no evil, wouldn't that also mean that there is no good? I can accept the "get what you give" concept (Jesus said similar things about mercy and forgiveness) but is not the end goal to reach enlightenment and escape the cycle of reincarnation? Is that why it zeros out, because your soul annihilates upon enlightenment? I haven't looked into Hinduism too much myself but it's hard for me to not conceptualize "moving toward enlightenment" as good and "moving away from enlightenment" as evil. Possibly because I don't know the context for what the end state of the universe is supposed to be in Hindu tradition.
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > If everything zeroing out means there is no evil, wouldn't that also mean that there is no good? As far as I understand the reincarnation philosophy, then, yes, there is no concept of good, because you can't have a concept of "good" without having the other end of the scale of "evil". > I haven't looked into Hinduism too much myself but it's hard for me to not conceptualize "moving toward enlightenment" as good and "moving away from enlightenment" as evil. I'm not a Hindu so I can't get into the weeds about this. What I remember from reading the religious texts (decades ago), such as the Bhagvhad Gita(sp?) is that "you do what you do, it will come back to you if it hasn't already".
- sleeplessworld 3y ago
  All the religious systems that incoporates reincarnation, that I am aware of, does include the concept of evil in some way. It seems your post contradicts itself? First quote "... that you are reincarnated and move up or down the ladder of greatness ... depending on how you lived, then there is no such thing as "evil"." Second quote: "... balance - each act you do (consider good/evil on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being evil)". So the system with no evil uses a scale based on good/evil? Also, what are the bad things you can do in a life-action-value system, where there is no evil? Seems to be cruel if your karma gets subtracted because one does a 'less good' but still good thing? And would such a system or the karma subtraction not constitute evil in itself?
  - lelanthran 3y ago
    > So the system with no evil uses a scale based on good/evil? I don't see the contradiction, because I asked the reader to consider it in simplistic terms - terms they already understand. The system doesn't use a scale of good and evil, its simply "you get what you deserve". Whether the reader thinks that fox hunting[1] is good/evil/neutral is irrelevant if they are reincarnated as a fox in their next life! So, yeah, you and I could, and would, classify some stuff on the scale of good/evil that you (and I) use, but because the scale is irrelevant, what purpose does the scale serve in a reincarnation-based belief system? If any act, $FOO, that a being does is done back to them (under the reincarnation belief system), does it matter if $FOO is "Killed for pleasure, not food" or "sacrificed much for some other beings benefit"? I guess what I am saying is, if the concept of evil and good is literally irrelevant to the workings of the belief system, then that belief system simply doesn't have the concept of evil (or good). [1] Using an example from a thread below. You can pick your own example.
    - sleeplessworld 3y ago
      Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps what this really shows is that a reincarnation system, where you can be reincarnated as an animal or thing that has no mental concept of good or evil, does not make sense. Because such a system cannot bring enlightenment, as your karma situation is basically unknowable - unless you would have an overview of the system and the chain of reincarnations, which does not seem to happen. And therefore whether your situation was a result of good or evil becomes irrelevant. But in a reincarnation system, where we only have reincarnation as humans, with a purpose of progress, the concept of good and evil can make sense (?). Even whether we completely understand the system or not. "... if the concept of evil and good is literally irrelevant to the workings of the belief system, then that belief system simply doesn't have the concept of evil (or good)." In a real sense yes, but the actors in the system may still be under the belief that good and evil exists. That actually may touch a sore point in some religions, that claims to have explanatory powers and maybe also salvation powers. But at the same time, it seems not to allow learning about and approaching a subject or concept such as good and evil, from a point of incomplete understanding. I think the whole thing ie. this entire interesting debate, shows that our understanding is incomplete. The concepts or beliefs we have in this area does not hold under analysis and scrutiny. And yet there seems to be something there that ignites curiosity.
utkarsh858 3y ago
Not just a philosopher of Jainism, there were many many philosophers from different strands of eastern philosophy(Sanatana Dharma, Jainism, Buddhism) and that too with many details.

lelanthran 3y ago

> No? The problem of evil is applicable to any religion that claims that an omnipotent and omniscient creator of the world exists, which many strands of Hinduism do. It's mostly the religions descending from the Abrahamic belief system that holds the concept of evil as a central belief and holds the concept of an ultimate evil personified as a central belief, and offers itself as the only way to escape punishment for all evils. As I understand it[1], the concept of "evil" cannot exist in any belief system that is built around the concept of a reincarnation which depends on the way the person lived their life. If you believe, as most orthodox Hinduism strands do, that you are reincarnated and move up or down the ladder of greatness (ants vs humans, poverty vs wealth, etc) depending on how you lived, then there is no such thing as "evil". You simply get what's required to ensure balance. IOW, "you always get what you give" is not a punishment at all for doing "evil" things, because "you always get what you give" doesn't require the concept of evil or good to simply return what you doled out when you are reincarnated. Think of it as balance - each act you do (consider good/evil on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being evil) will eventually balance out some other act you do or did in a previous incarnation, and if not, will be balanced out by some future act in a future incarnation. [1] I'm an atheist, and as such much more aware of what and how different religions supply a "belief system" than followers of those religions themselves.

I_Am_Nous 3y ago
If everything zeroing out means there is no evil, wouldn't that also mean that there is no good? I can accept the "get what you give" concept (Jesus said similar things about mercy and forgiveness) but is not the end goal to reach enlightenment and escape the cycle of reincarnation? Is that why it zeros out, because your soul annihilates upon enlightenment? I haven't looked into Hinduism too much myself but it's hard for me to not conceptualize "moving toward enlightenment" as good and "moving away from enlightenment" as evil. Possibly because I don't know the context for what the end state of the universe is supposed to be in Hindu tradition.
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > If everything zeroing out means there is no evil, wouldn't that also mean that there is no good? As far as I understand the reincarnation philosophy, then, yes, there is no concept of good, because you can't have a concept of "good" without having the other end of the scale of "evil". > I haven't looked into Hinduism too much myself but it's hard for me to not conceptualize "moving toward enlightenment" as good and "moving away from enlightenment" as evil. I'm not a Hindu so I can't get into the weeds about this. What I remember from reading the religious texts (decades ago), such as the Bhagvhad Gita(sp?) is that "you do what you do, it will come back to you if it hasn't already".
sleeplessworld 3y ago
All the religious systems that incoporates reincarnation, that I am aware of, does include the concept of evil in some way. It seems your post contradicts itself? First quote "... that you are reincarnated and move up or down the ladder of greatness ... depending on how you lived, then there is no such thing as "evil"." Second quote: "... balance - each act you do (consider good/evil on a scale from 1-10 with 1 being evil)". So the system with no evil uses a scale based on good/evil? Also, what are the bad things you can do in a life-action-value system, where there is no evil? Seems to be cruel if your karma gets subtracted because one does a 'less good' but still good thing? And would such a system or the karma subtraction not constitute evil in itself?
- lelanthran 3y ago
  > So the system with no evil uses a scale based on good/evil? I don't see the contradiction, because I asked the reader to consider it in simplistic terms - terms they already understand. The system doesn't use a scale of good and evil, its simply "you get what you deserve". Whether the reader thinks that fox hunting[1] is good/evil/neutral is irrelevant if they are reincarnated as a fox in their next life! So, yeah, you and I could, and would, classify some stuff on the scale of good/evil that you (and I) use, but because the scale is irrelevant, what purpose does the scale serve in a reincarnation-based belief system? If any act, $FOO, that a being does is done back to them (under the reincarnation belief system), does it matter if $FOO is "Killed for pleasure, not food" or "sacrificed much for some other beings benefit"? I guess what I am saying is, if the concept of evil and good is literally irrelevant to the workings of the belief system, then that belief system simply doesn't have the concept of evil (or good). [1] Using an example from a thread below. You can pick your own example.
  - sleeplessworld 3y ago
    Thanks for the clarification. Perhaps what this really shows is that a reincarnation system, where you can be reincarnated as an animal or thing that has no mental concept of good or evil, does not make sense. Because such a system cannot bring enlightenment, as your karma situation is basically unknowable - unless you would have an overview of the system and the chain of reincarnations, which does not seem to happen. And therefore whether your situation was a result of good or evil becomes irrelevant. But in a reincarnation system, where we only have reincarnation as humans, with a purpose of progress, the concept of good and evil can make sense (?). Even whether we completely understand the system or not. "... if the concept of evil and good is literally irrelevant to the workings of the belief system, then that belief system simply doesn't have the concept of evil (or good)." In a real sense yes, but the actors in the system may still be under the belief that good and evil exists. That actually may touch a sore point in some religions, that claims to have explanatory powers and maybe also salvation powers. But at the same time, it seems not to allow learning about and approaching a subject or concept such as good and evil, from a point of incomplete understanding. I think the whole thing ie. this entire interesting debate, shows that our understanding is incomplete. The concepts or beliefs we have in this area does not hold under analysis and scrutiny. And yet there seems to be something there that ignites curiosity.

utkarsh858 3y ago

Not just a philosopher of Jainism, there were many many philosophers from different strands of eastern philosophy(Sanatana Dharma, Jainism, Buddhism) and that too with many details.