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Airplanes are inherently much, much less reliable than cars and only reach reliability through however many millions or billions of dollars worth of redundant s
by bmitc 3y ago
Airplanes are inherently much, much less reliable than cars and only reach reliability through however many millions or billions of dollars worth of redundant systems and maintenance intervals and however many man-hours. That means that when you get on an airplane, you are extremely reliant on those systems and processes having been followed.
We are seeing more and more that these systems and processes have been breaking down, from regulation to manufacturing to pilots to systems to maintenance.
It really is hard to compare, but for an airplane, a passenger has to have faith that literally hundreds of thousands of people and things have done their job correctly. When I drive my car, I am much less reliant on people, systems, and processes, as cars are just plain simple. Most leople barely change their oil or check tire pressure. I even once had a complete engine failure and was able to just roll to a stop from highway speeds. Furthermore, I am in control. If I am too tired, I don't drive. I can pay attention to other drivers. I am directly responsible for maintenance. Etc.
I think it's hard to compare airplanes to cars by numbers alone. There are subtleties that are not exposed by numbers.
For an airplane passenger, it is absolutely a risk. You rely on so much happening correctly, and you are not in control of any of it. As little bits in that chain of things that need to happen don't happen correctly, percentages of failure and death go way up, and fast.
And we haven't even discussed in-flight medical emergencies, as there are actually quite a few in-flight deaths every year that would likely not yield a death if the medical emergency happened on the ground.
> There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.
Wikipedia says there has been 51, not counting private or military. And that list doesnt include American aircraft flying overseas, to which the MAX planes would add hundreds.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_...
- TylerE 3y agoPlane Operated by a US Airline != Plane Manufactured in the US
- bmitc 3y agoYes. And? I didn't conflate those two.
- Roark66 3y agoAnd that is why I think it is absolutely, mind bogglingly bonkers that Tesla is currently using "drive by wire" in a mass production car when this technology is not common in aviation at all. Only the huge airliners that benefit from extremely expensive maintenance schedules use full "fly by wire".
- TylerE 3y agoEvery Airbus built in the last 40 years is fly by wire.
- user_7832 3y agoDrive by wire isn’t the problem. You already have tons of electronics in a 10 year old car, from the ECU to ABS. However, there are relevant important standards and certifications in aviation, and I’m not sure if vehicular certs are as strict.
- Roark66 3y ago>Drive by wire isn’t the problem Yes it will be when you loose all power while going 80mph on a motorway because rodents ate the wiring 10 years later. "tons of electronics" in modern cars is not required for the most basic functionality such as steering and braking. Yes, you loose power steering and power breaking if it goes off, but you can still drive (unless maybe you've never driven without it and it surprises you during a high speed takeover manouver etc). This "drive by wire" takes away the most essential security feature present in "all" cars up to now. A direct mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the wheels. Even manufacturers of small airplanes (like "executive" 8 seater jets) say "no way" to this tech unless it controls an auxiliary control surface. Putting it in a production car that will get crashes, it will corrode (yes copper wiring and insulation corrodes too), it will get attacked by rodents and it might get driven in 50 years from now as a "classic" is sheer, unabridged, stupidity of the highest order.
- user_7832 3y agoThat’s a valid point, I wonder how aircrafts avoid these issues.
- mattmaroon 3y agoPeople die in cars due to medical emergency all the time. I even know someone who had a heart attack and it caused him to hit a utility pole and die. We just don’t have any way of tracking it, whereas the FAA keeps very detailed statistics. You’re leaving out the biggest risk: other people. Most deaths, in planes or cars, are caused by human error. In a car you’re dependent on everyone going down the road (and there may be thousands in one trip) not drifting across the median. You’re dependent on the person coming the other way at an intersection to stop. Etc. Traffic deaths have been climbing again after decades of decline, probably due to distracted driving. Driving is much more dangerous.