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I like to consider what is safer when something goes wromg. Are there statistics that track this across different modes of travel?
by bmitc 3y ago
I like to consider what is safer when something goes wromg. Are there statistics that track this across different modes of travel?
- rightbyte 3y agoYour car won't fall out of the sky in the event of a malfunction so I guess cars are safer "when something goes wrong"? Then again cars travel with less margin of error to other cars and objects than airplanes.
- thfuran 3y agoAn airplane falling out the sky is something like the equivalent of the wheels falling off of a car traveling at speed. It's not that it can't happen, but it's hardly the only possible result of a malfunction.
- cereal_cable 3y agoThere's also a giant speed difference plus the fact that a car will decelerate even if uncontrollably for basically any mechanical failure. Even at speed vehicle accidents are quite safe comparatively to a plane that has lost its ability to fly. A plane tends to have all or nothing incidents while vehicles have lots of accidents with a wide variety of severity. Naturally that tends to push aviation towards avoidance of mechanical issues and on cars we are much more tolerant. I've seen people driving cars with their door duck taped on!
- TylerE 3y agoYes. Airplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars. There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009.
- ixs 3y agoSouthwest 1380 would like a word with you. Southwest Airlines Flight 1380 was a Boeing 737-700 that experienced an uncontained engine failure[a] in the left CFM56-7B engine after departing from New York–LaGuardia Airport en route to Dallas Love Field on April 17, 2018. […] One passenger was partially ejected from the aircraft and sustained fatal injuries[…] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_1380 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Airlines_Flight_13...
- vladms 3y agoBased on this https://www.airlines.org/dataset/safety-record-of-u-s-air-carriers/ https://www.airlines.org/dataset/safety-record-of-u-s-air-ca... between 2009 and 2021 there were indeed 2. I think that the point stands, it is very impressive and safe.
- bmitc 3y agoWikipedia says 51. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_... The numbers would go up quite a bit if it included private and military. The numbers you linked to seem to have a very tight definition of which flights were considered, as the Wikipedia list showcases several more in-flight deaths involving air carrier class airplanes than just two.
- nodamage 3y agoI don't understand how you arrived at the number 51. Did you just tally up all the incidents in that list that occurred after 2009? That list includes a bunch of incidents that are not really relevant for assessing risk level when flying on a commercial airline: - Someone committing suicide by getting sucked into a plane engine while the plane was on the ground. - Someone sneaking onto a runway and getting struck by a plane that was landing. - Another person stealing a plane and intentionally crashing it into the ground. - The Kobe Bryant helicopter crash. Looking through the list I would conclude the parent comment was correct. The only incidents with passenger fatalities on US airlines since 2009 were Southwest 1380 and PenAir 3296.
- bmitc 3y agoAirplanes are inherently much, much less reliable than cars and only reach reliability through however many millions or billions of dollars worth of redundant systems and maintenance intervals and however many man-hours. That means that when you get on an airplane, you are extremely reliant on those systems and processes having been followed. We are seeing more and more that these systems and processes have been breaking down, from regulation to manufacturing to pilots to systems to maintenance. It really is hard to compare, but for an airplane, a passenger has to have faith that literally hundreds of thousands of people and things have done their job correctly. When I drive my car, I am much less reliant on people, systems, and processes, as cars are just plain simple. Most leople barely change their oil or check tire pressure. I even once had a complete engine failure and was able to just roll to a stop from highway speeds. Furthermore, I am in control. If I am too tired, I don't drive. I can pay attention to other drivers. I am directly responsible for maintenance. Etc. I think it's hard to compare airplanes to cars by numbers alone. There are subtleties that are not exposed by numbers. For an airplane passenger, it is absolutely a risk. You rely on so much happening correctly, and you are not in control of any of it. As little bits in that chain of things that need to happen don't happen correctly, percentages of failure and death go way up, and fast. And we haven't even discussed in-flight medical emergencies, as there are actually quite a few in-flight deaths every year that would likely not yield a death if the medical emergency happened on the ground. > There has not been a single US airline fatality since 2009. Wikipedia says there has been 51, not counting private or military. And that list doesnt include American aircraft flying overseas, to which the MAX planes would add hundreds. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_incidents_involving_commercial_aircraft_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_accidents_and_...
- b112 3y agoAirplanes are literally hundreds of times less likely to kill you per mile than cars A weird metric. I'd prefer travel time, not per mile. Still far safer.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- camkego 3y agoAn old article from 1998 says the risk of death per hour of travel for air vs car is about the same. https://observer.com/1998/03/driving-versus-flying-the-debate-is-settled/ https://observer.com/1998/03/driving-versus-flying-the-debat... But, I disagree with the article, I think the debate is hardly settled.
- TylerE 3y agoWhy is it a weird metric? People travel exactly as far as they need to, not based on time.
- b112 3y agoBecause when trying to compare different things (car, train, plane, space ship, etc), they all travel at different speeds, by different methods, with different categories. An example? Travel to the moon would be the safest thing ever, even if 50% of the ships exploded, because of how far it is. I bet travel to Mars would the safest thing ever, based upon miles, even if 99% of the ships exploded. Things break based upon two things. One is maintenance per trip. And each trip has riskier parts, of which start and end are parts. Planes have issues taking off and landing, a lot more than cruising. Same for space ships. Even cars have issues at start and end of trip, if you're driving very long distances.
- TylerE 3y agoWhat, no? Earth to the moon is 200,000 miles away. Call it a half million for a round trip. Airliner passenger deaths are 1 per several billion miles.