4 ms·

Defining investing as gambling might just be the funniest thing I have read on HN and I am almost 50 years old :)

advael 3y ago
I mean, I think they were only arguing long- and short- selling are gambling, not any form of investment. I would also say most daytrading is at least gambling-adjacent. We get a little more fuzzy once we talk about investing significant amounts into a business (e.g. "Angel Investors") where you can meaningfully be said to be influencing the outcome you're betting on in a significant way, and we can probably say that investing in vehicles like index funds are a pretty safe bet as long as the economy writ large doesn't crash, but like many terms in the english language a whole ambiguous grey area exists where the connotational choice you make in describing it is pretty subjective
hnlmorg 3y ago
Short selling could be argued as the literal opposite to investing because you're borrowing stock, immediately selling and hoping it goes down in value so you can buy it back cheaper. You're not actually investing in anything. Maybe you're getting confused with normal trades where you hold onto your stock and hope it goes up in value (like with any other investment)?
- wkyle 3y ago
  I don't think that it makes a ton of sense to draw an ideological difference between shorting and buying in the secondary market, where buying is 'Investing' and short selling isn't. Both are valid contributors to price discovery. The initial investment already happened, you're not actually adding capital to the company when buying shares on an exchange.
  - hnlmorg 3y ago
    Investing doesn't mean you have to contribute to the thing you're investing in. Take investing in gold for example, you don't polish nor do anything else to the metal. You just buy a quantity of it and hope it goes up in value. The problem with short selling is that you're actually borrowing. That all said, I'm not saying I disagree with your point either. It is hard to make an ideological argument when this is really more just different shades of grey. Personally I'd say all investments are a form of gambling. Some investments are just riskier than others.

I mean, I think they were only arguing long- and short- selling are gambling, not any form of investment. I would also say most daytrading is at least gambling-adjacent. We get a little more fuzzy once we talk about investing significant amounts into a business (e.g. "Angel Investors") where you can meaningfully be said to be influencing the outcome you're betting on in a significant way, and we can probably say that investing in vehicles like index funds are a pretty safe bet as long as the economy writ large doesn't crash, but like many terms in the english language a whole ambiguous grey area exists where the connotational choice you make in describing it is pretty subjective

hnlmorg 3y ago

Short selling could be argued as the literal opposite to investing because you're borrowing stock, immediately selling and hoping it goes down in value so you can buy it back cheaper. You're not actually investing in anything. Maybe you're getting confused with normal trades where you hold onto your stock and hope it goes up in value (like with any other investment)?

wkyle 3y ago
I don't think that it makes a ton of sense to draw an ideological difference between shorting and buying in the secondary market, where buying is 'Investing' and short selling isn't. Both are valid contributors to price discovery. The initial investment already happened, you're not actually adding capital to the company when buying shares on an exchange.
- hnlmorg 3y ago
  Investing doesn't mean you have to contribute to the thing you're investing in. Take investing in gold for example, you don't polish nor do anything else to the metal. You just buy a quantity of it and hope it goes up in value. The problem with short selling is that you're actually borrowing. That all said, I'm not saying I disagree with your point either. It is hard to make an ideological argument when this is really more just different shades of grey. Personally I'd say all investments are a form of gambling. Some investments are just riskier than others.