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I hope so too, because there's really only one way to find out. That said some of the non-military stories that you hear out of China really make you wonder wh

by clwg 3y ago

I hope so too, because there's really only one way to find out. That said some of the non-military stories that you hear out of China really make you wonder what their true capabilities are. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18/finally-china-manufactures-a-ballpoint-pen-all-by-itself/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/01/18...

atticora 3y ago
I am very impressed by the engineering and design of my Bambu Labs printer. To me that outweighs a large number of stories about ballpoint pens. I've bought far less impressive machines from China too of course. But from here it looks like there are many industries where their actual delivered capabilities are at least as good and sometimes better than anything I can buy elsewhere. DJI is another such example, and both companies clearly reflect technology with military applications. China does have the capability for leading edge tech. Whether their social system exploits it effectively is another question.
- clwg 3y ago
  Tim Cook also has a high opinion of China[0], and Apple products are extremely well manufactured, so your point stands. I just think that there may be some fundamental gaps in China's capabilities, or just systemic corruption/bureaucracy (like water-filled missiles) that aren't necessarily evident at this point in time and won't be known until China is really tested in a military type conflict. https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-...
- obscurette 3y ago
  There is more good engineers in China not because it's China, but because in China there is a lot of people who build things. Western world largely doesn't build things any more, especially Europe. And if you don't build, you don't have an environment where good engineers could evolve at all. https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/5g-elephant-in-the-room/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/5g-elephant-in-the-room/
maxglute 3y ago
The ballpoint pen story _IS_ a military story first and foremost that went over western journalists heads. TLDR is Li Keqiang used ballpoint pen as example of PRC industry at the time lacking precision manufacturing capabilities for defense. A few years later, PRC developed tungsten carbide manufacturing for advanced munitions. A few years after that TISCO, 10B+ state owned steel group decided to waste their time making ballpoint tips worth 20M imports per year in PRC (which was 80% of global demand), i.e. basically political sideshow for propaganda because the market wasn't worth being addressed without political pressure. For reference only Switzerland, Japan and now PRC makes ballpoint pen tips. US didn't/doesn't (not can't) make ballpoint pens, but they can make advanced munitions. Which makes WSJ article extra ironic when it points out that it was PRC steel industry instead of pen industry that made indigenous ballpoint tip technology, but that was literally the point. The ballpoint tip saga is about PRC political pressure on state industries to rapidly develop advanced manufacturing capabilities for weapons. And they did, even before they figured out ball point pen tips.

by clwg 3y ago

atticora 3y ago

I am very impressed by the engineering and design of my Bambu Labs printer. To me that outweighs a large number of stories about ballpoint pens. I've bought far less impressive machines from China too of course. But from here it looks like there are many industries where their actual delivered capabilities are at least as good and sometimes better than anything I can buy elsewhere. DJI is another such example, and both companies clearly reflect technology with military applications. China does have the capability for leading edge tech. Whether their social system exploits it effectively is another question.

clwg 3y ago
Tim Cook also has a high opinion of China[0], and Apple products are extremely well manufactured, so your point stands. I just think that there may be some fundamental gaps in China's capabilities, or just systemic corruption/bureaucracy (like water-filled missiles) that aren't necessarily evident at this point in time and won't be known until China is really tested in a military type conflict. https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-is-number-1-reason-we-make-iphones-in-china-its-not-what-you-think.html https://www.inc.com/glenn-leibowitz/apple-ceo-tim-cook-this-...
obscurette 3y ago
There is more good engineers in China not because it's China, but because in China there is a lot of people who build things. Western world largely doesn't build things any more, especially Europe. And if you don't build, you don't have an environment where good engineers could evolve at all. https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/5g-elephant-in-the-room/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/5g-elephant-in-the-room/

maxglute 3y ago

The ballpoint pen story _IS_ a military story first and foremost that went over western journalists heads. TLDR is Li Keqiang used ballpoint pen as example of PRC industry at the time lacking precision manufacturing capabilities for defense. A few years later, PRC developed tungsten carbide manufacturing for advanced munitions. A few years after that TISCO, 10B+ state owned steel group decided to waste their time making ballpoint tips worth 20M imports per year in PRC (which was 80% of global demand), i.e. basically political sideshow for propaganda because the market wasn't worth being addressed without political pressure. For reference only Switzerland, Japan and now PRC makes ballpoint pen tips. US didn't/doesn't (not can't) make ballpoint pens, but they can make advanced munitions. Which makes WSJ article extra ironic when it points out that it was PRC steel industry instead of pen industry that made indigenous ballpoint tip technology, but that was literally the point. The ballpoint tip saga is about PRC political pressure on state industries to rapidly develop advanced manufacturing capabilities for weapons. And they did, even before they figured out ball point pen tips.