4 ms·

To suggest a harsh opinion on things here: If you’re in a position of power, and not medically licensed, then giving authoritative medical advice to the public

To suggest a harsh opinion on things here: If you’re in a position of power, and not medically licensed, then giving authoritative medical advice to the public should be a crime - especially when such advice results in death.

slibhb 3y ago
That's absurd. Can't we just make peace with the fact that freedom means freedom to do dumb shit?
- faitswulff 3y ago
  Why is it absurd? It's already illegal. The only absurd thing is that said authorities or former authorities have faced no significant consequences for it.
  - mbrumlow 3y ago
    I am sorry what? Speech does not become illegal simply because it is on medical topics or your position of power. Speech may become illegal if your intent is to hide known risk, but most certainly not for being wrong, otherwise you better be pounding your fist to arrest a huge number more of people honest wrong.
  - slibhb 3y ago
    It's obviously unworkable to restrict free speech like that. According to the article, we'd have to jail Trump and Macron. Free speech issues aside, there were plenty of doctors who recommended Hydroxychloroquine. I know a (good) doctor who thought that Ivermectin probably had in vivo antivral properties (before studies showed that it didn't). Lots of doctors have weird fringe opinions.
    - faitswulff 3y ago
      > According to the article, we'd have to jail Trump and Macron. Does that make it unworkable?
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  What freedom? You get locked up if you take certain drugs.
  - dp-hackernews 3y ago
    That are classified as restricted... marijuana isn't so restricted these days, but that used to be "considered" illegal at one time. When will cigars, cigarettes, and alcohol be made illegal? - they're certainly not good for your health, and the evidence is everywhere.
- pupppet 3y ago
  And when the hospitals fill up and there’s no room for me? Your freedom shouldn’t impede on my freedom.
  - slibhb 3y ago
    If you want to start restricting people's freedom to improve healthcare, start by banning alcohol and tobacco. It's worth considering why we don't do that.
fatherzine 3y ago
i generally agree with the sentiment, yet sadly this topic has been politicized. we apply partisan blinders depending on which political faction is perceived to have promoted a concrete course of action. for one example, while i have been out of the loop on this one for a while, iirc the use of mechanical ventilators in early stages of the pandemic, by medically licensed personnel was tantamount to medical malpractice. establishment will never admit it, at the very least for legal liability reasons. via a cursory search, see eg https://www.practiceupdate.com/content/chest-2021-mechanical-ventilation-associated-with-higher-mortality-in-covid-19-patients/126115 https://www.practiceupdate.com/content/chest-2021-mechanical...
- dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
  Doctors are going to get things wrong in a novel situation and the use of mechanical ventilators doesn't seem be unreasonable in the circumstances. It's only malpractice if it's obviously known to be harmful. Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, but doctors always work with imperfect knowledge and mistakes are inevitable, but that doesn't detract from their utility overall.
kcplate 3y ago
So what if you are medically licensed? My recollection was that there was a pandemic, people were dying, and doctors were looking at all sorts of known drugs to treat a novel virus that have had some success in treating similar conditions. I don’t blame doctors for trying things back then to save lives. I do blame governments and authorities for tying the hands of doctors from trying new things because of political reasons. My sense is that there are probably far more pandemic deaths attributable to political posturing than to HCQ use.

slibhb 3y ago

That's absurd. Can't we just make peace with the fact that freedom means freedom to do dumb shit?

faitswulff 3y ago
Why is it absurd? It's already illegal. The only absurd thing is that said authorities or former authorities have faced no significant consequences for it.
- mbrumlow 3y ago
  I am sorry what? Speech does not become illegal simply because it is on medical topics or your position of power. Speech may become illegal if your intent is to hide known risk, but most certainly not for being wrong, otherwise you better be pounding your fist to arrest a huge number more of people honest wrong.
- slibhb 3y ago
  It's obviously unworkable to restrict free speech like that. According to the article, we'd have to jail Trump and Macron. Free speech issues aside, there were plenty of doctors who recommended Hydroxychloroquine. I know a (good) doctor who thought that Ivermectin probably had in vivo antivral properties (before studies showed that it didn't). Lots of doctors have weird fringe opinions.
  - faitswulff 3y ago
    > According to the article, we'd have to jail Trump and Macron. Does that make it unworkable?
dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
What freedom? You get locked up if you take certain drugs.
- dp-hackernews 3y ago
  That are classified as restricted... marijuana isn't so restricted these days, but that used to be "considered" illegal at one time. When will cigars, cigarettes, and alcohol be made illegal? - they're certainly not good for your health, and the evidence is everywhere.
pupppet 3y ago
And when the hospitals fill up and there’s no room for me? Your freedom shouldn’t impede on my freedom.
- slibhb 3y ago
  If you want to start restricting people's freedom to improve healthcare, start by banning alcohol and tobacco. It's worth considering why we don't do that.

fatherzine 3y ago

i generally agree with the sentiment, yet sadly this topic has been politicized. we apply partisan blinders depending on which political faction is perceived to have promoted a concrete course of action. for one example, while i have been out of the loop on this one for a while, iirc the use of mechanical ventilators in early stages of the pandemic, by medically licensed personnel was tantamount to medical malpractice. establishment will never admit it, at the very least for legal liability reasons. via a cursory search, see eg https://www.practiceupdate.com/content/chest-2021-mechanical-ventilation-associated-with-higher-mortality-in-covid-19-patients/126115 https://www.practiceupdate.com/content/chest-2021-mechanical...

dkjaudyeqooe 3y ago
Doctors are going to get things wrong in a novel situation and the use of mechanical ventilators doesn't seem be unreasonable in the circumstances. It's only malpractice if it's obviously known to be harmful. Not sure what the point you're trying to make is, but doctors always work with imperfect knowledge and mistakes are inevitable, but that doesn't detract from their utility overall.

kcplate 3y ago

So what if you are medically licensed? My recollection was that there was a pandemic, people were dying, and doctors were looking at all sorts of known drugs to treat a novel virus that have had some success in treating similar conditions. I don’t blame doctors for trying things back then to save lives. I do blame governments and authorities for tying the hands of doctors from trying new things because of political reasons. My sense is that there are probably far more pandemic deaths attributable to political posturing than to HCQ use.