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> By definition, a flow state is non-collaborative; [...] you’re certainly not going to be in that mindset while you’re in a pair programming session. This is

> By definition, a flow state is non-collaborative; [...] you’re certainly not going to be in that mindset while you’re in a pair programming session. This is not true. Group flow is a well documented phenomenom[0]. While it's easiest to recognize for example in an orchestra, group flow can happen with pair programming as well. [0] https://www.aalto.fi/en/oasis-of-radical-wellbeing/group-flow-what-is-it-and-how-to-achieve-it https://www.aalto.fi/en/oasis-of-radical-wellbeing/group-flo...

halfcat 3y ago
I do wonder if group flow and individual flow have more to do with different skill sets, and which path best suits the people you have, as opposed to the idea that group or individual flow is more effective. Like, I like to whiteboard and mock up a problem in Python to wrap my brain around it. My coworker likes to mock things up in Excel. Usually when we work together, I find myself just waiting to get off the call so I can do my own whiteboarding. What makes sense to him in his Excel file doesn’t hit as much for me. Whereas it seems like group flow uses some kind of higher level coordination process, whether it’s whatever orchestra “best practices” have been established over centuries, or people chanting together in temples, or whatever. The question being, while group flow exists, is it simply that it requires people who like engaging in the “group flow activities”? Like we can probably find people who coincidentally like chanting, and those people might make good monks. But will my coworker and I ever work well in a pair programming environment?
- serialNumber 3y ago
  Excel? How does that work - first time I'm hearing of it being used in that way
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
bradknowles 3y ago
I've played in a large band, with over fifty members. I did that for several years. The thing that kept us together was the conductor, not some sort of "group flow". This is not to say that "group flow" doesn't exist, but I'd want more extraordinary evidence for this claim.
- ttiurani 3y ago
  Just like individual flow, group flow is not an automatic and you can do great things without it. Its role also is not to keep the group "together".

halfcat 3y ago

I do wonder if group flow and individual flow have more to do with different skill sets, and which path best suits the people you have, as opposed to the idea that group or individual flow is more effective. Like, I like to whiteboard and mock up a problem in Python to wrap my brain around it. My coworker likes to mock things up in Excel. Usually when we work together, I find myself just waiting to get off the call so I can do my own whiteboarding. What makes sense to him in his Excel file doesn’t hit as much for me. Whereas it seems like group flow uses some kind of higher level coordination process, whether it’s whatever orchestra “best practices” have been established over centuries, or people chanting together in temples, or whatever. The question being, while group flow exists, is it simply that it requires people who like engaging in the “group flow activities”? Like we can probably find people who coincidentally like chanting, and those people might make good monks. But will my coworker and I ever work well in a pair programming environment?

serialNumber 3y ago
Excel? How does that work - first time I'm hearing of it being used in that way
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

bradknowles 3y ago

I've played in a large band, with over fifty members. I did that for several years. The thing that kept us together was the conductor, not some sort of "group flow". This is not to say that "group flow" doesn't exist, but I'd want more extraordinary evidence for this claim.

ttiurani 3y ago
Just like individual flow, group flow is not an automatic and you can do great things without it. Its role also is not to keep the group "together".