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Question to the Airline people on HN: I recall that following the 2019 deaths that Boeing was going to rebrand the Max with some number series or similar, so t
by DoingIsLearning 3y ago
Question to the Airline people on HN:
I recall that following the 2019 deaths that Boeing was going to rebrand the Max with some number series or similar, so that passengers didn't get nervous flying in it.
How do I as a passenger identified all the rebranding permutations of the Max so that I make sure my family is not flying in them?
- bagels 3y agoJust fly Airbus.
- ant6n 3y agoJust take the train or boat.
- ksjskskskkk 3y agopassenger boats are way overdue for a come back. don't even mention nasty cruises which only cover coastal routes, like some paleolithic dingy.
- admissionsguy 3y agoNot sure if you are serious, but I agree. I like to take a train+ferry whenever possible even if it adds a day or two to the journey. Did lots of trips on the Amsterdam-Newcastle and Sweden-Poland routes. Uncomparably good memories compared to plane travel which is uniformly awful. I have been scouting cruise websites for ways to also replace transatlantic flights, but they are way too sparse.
- bartread 3y agoFerry routes have really taken a pounding in the UK over the past decade or two unfortunately. Combination of the channel tunnel and low cost airlines I would making former routes uneconomical to run is, I would imagine, where the majority of the blame lies. One example: I've always wanted to do a motorcycle tour around Scandinavia, particularly Norway, but it's a heck of a ride from Calais all the way up there. For many bikes, far enough that you'd need to organise a service and tyre change at least once whilst on the trip. At the time when I was first thinking about this I had a bike with a 3750 mile service interval, although I could generally squeak 4000 - 5000 miles out of tyres. So my plan back in 2014 had been to ride up from East Anglia to Aberdeen, get on the ferry to Lerwick, and then get a ferry from Lerwick to Stavanger in Norway to cut off a lot of "transit" riding. Unfortunately it turned out the website with this ferry route listed was lying to me, and that actually it had been retired in something like 2008. (You can still find this route listed on some websites today, but it's long since gone.) Nowadays I'm not even sure it's possible to get a ferry from the UK to Germany. I've never done it but you used to be able to get a ferry from Harwich (very convenient for me) to Bremerhaven: no more, sadly.
- magicalhippo 3y agoThere was a ferry from Emden, Germany to Kristiansand, Norway which might have been interesting. But it recently got shut down[1] due to financial difficulties. Maybe it gets resurrected at some point... [1]: https://reiseliv1.no/reiseliv/2023/rederiet-holland-norway-lines-stanser-ruten-mellom-kristiansand-og-emden-i-tyskland https://reiseliv1.no/reiseliv/2023/rederiet-holland-norway-l...
- Symbiote 3y agoSome of these ferries still run for freight-only, e.g. link below. I'm not sure if they'd take a motorbike (or car) as freight though, except on a trailer. https://www.dfds.com/en/freight-shipping/routes-and-schedules/brevik-immingham https://www.dfds.com/en/freight-shipping/routes-and-schedule...
- traverseda 3y agoIt does mention self-drivers
- tim333 3y agoThere may be hope "Low emission cruise travel . save more than 50% energy compared to.. the last vessel operating the same route." BERGEN STAVANGER NEWCASTLE - planned to start 2026 https://bergencruiseline.no/ourmission/ https://bergencruiseline.no/ourmission/
- bartread 3y agoOoh, now that's exciting. There's a Kawasaki dealership in Bergen where I'd been planning to get my bike serviced on the trip.
- jfk13 3y ago> One example: I've always wanted to do a motorcycle tour around Scandinavia, particularly Norway, but it's a heck of a ride from Calais all the way up there. Hah, that brings back memories: in the early 80s I did a bike (not motor-) journey from home (in the south of England) to Sweden, taking the Dover-Calais ferry and then via France-Belgium-Netherlands-Germany-Denmark. Must've been ~900 miles of pedalling. But I didn't attempt a tour of Scandinavia once I got there! (I was headed over there to stay with relatives for a few months.)
- ghaff 3y agoThere’s basically only one ocean liner in the world although cruise ships do reposition and there are some other options. Trains are more practical in Europe although long distance can involve a fair number of changes and time spent in train stations. I don’t love plane trips but they generally get the trip over fairly quickly if the journey isn’t the goal. And longer haul comfort is mostly just a matter of money.
- konschubert 3y agoI don’t think that passenger boats are a replace for planes in any way.
- Symbiote 3y agoThere's plenty of places where geography means they are, especially in Europe — around Scandinavia, Greece, the British Isles, Spanish islands etc. Presumably the Caribbean and some of South East Asia is the same. The journey is obviously slower, but that can either be a way to rest on a long road journey (truck drivers in Europe sometimes use longer ferry routes so they get their mandatory rest period), or an opportunity to sleep in a fairly decent bed.
- d00wgnir 3y agoLet's not pretend that passenger vessels are less likely to be subject to accidents.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- belter 3y agoFirst check its not a Boeing... /s
- DoingIsLearning 3y agoThat's not realistic. Not always possible depending on routes.
- midasuni 3y agoSome routes will only have max planes, so don’t fly them, vote with your wallet.
- onlyrealcuzzo 3y agoThey can and do swap planes all the time.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- LilBytes 3y agoAustralia doesn't have any Airbus planes for domestic flights. :-/
- Panzer04 3y agoEr, what? Jetstar at least seems to have nothing but A320s for domestic stuff.
- LilBytes 3y agoCan't edit my post, yeah you're right. I quoted some one verbatim who works at Airbus who said Airbus Australia was exclusively supporting Defences helicopter fleet. I must have misunderstood what they said and Qantas/Jetstar are flying Airbus but are being supported by another party. My mistake.
- nness 3y agoGoogle says "737 dash 8 through 10" — and Ryanair at least (who has huge order of MAX's) uses "737-8200" or "737 MAX 10." However, considering how common it is for an airline to switch product, it would be quite difficult to ensure your flight isn't on one of these aircraft without double-checking during boarding — then refusing to board.
- merrywhether 3y agoMaybe we should help them out and start calling them 737 MBA-8/9/10.
- resolutebat 3y agoThere was talk of rebranding them by dropping the MAX entirely and calling them simply 737-8, -9, -10, but AFAIK this didn't happen in the end.
- paradite 3y agoI'm sure someone will make a website for it. Sooner or later.
- fundatus 3y agoIt already exists: https://www.alternativeairlines.com/airlines-not-flying-boeing-737-max https://www.alternativeairlines.com/airlines-not-flying-boei...
- hef19898 3y agoUnless the legal fram work changes, it won't work. Airlines are totally allowed to book passeneges on other flights and to switch aircraft anytime the have to, want of feel like it. None of which is a reason to be reimbursed as a passenger. So what do you wanna do, when you book a non-Boeing flight, the Airbus plane has technical peoblems and the airline uses one of the available Boeing planes instead? The airline won't reimburse anyone, so it woupd be up to the website doing so, if they sold this service. By the way, Boeing planes are generally speaking perfectly fine. I'd rather avoid certain airlines with bad safety records.
- seunosewa 3y agoYou have a better chance of not ending up on a Max if you try to avoid it. A 20% probability of ending up in the plane is better than a 75% probability.
- wannacboatmovie 3y agoYou don't. Airlines can and do switch like aircraft at the last minute all the time. Do all the planning you like, but you won't know for sure until you're seated and look at the safety card. So unless you intend to have a "Qantas never crashed" tantrum in the airport, you may be out of luck because the only airlines in the US that have not ordered the MAX are Spirit/Frontier (Greyhound with wings) and JetBlue, and they don't fly everywhere.
- deadbabe 3y agoPeople can say what they want about Spirit but I still think they’re the best airline to get around the US if you buy one of the big front seats. And the fact they don’t fly a MAX is even better.
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- boppo1 3y agoIdk, the mandatory sing-alongs about credit cards are pretty rough. Maybe worse than surprise skydiving.
- hosteur 3y ago> the mandatory sing-alongs about credit cards Huh? Sing-alongs? What does this mean?
- sq_ 3y agoI somewhat agree with this when they’re running smoothly: you can pay for a few quality of life upgrades and get an experience only a little bit worse than a more expensive airline for somewhat less money. When things go wrong, though, I feel like Spirit does a pretty awful job. I had them cancel a flight on me at the last minute, and the only thing they would offer was a much later flight to an airport three hours from my destination or a flight to my destination in five days. As a result, I’d much rather fly something like Southwest. Buy a ticket at the right time and they’ll sell it to you dirt cheap, you’re pretty much guaranteed a decent experience, and if something goes wrong they have enough flights and routes and customer service policies to get you taken care of.
- frankthepickle 3y agocan someone else tell me if the actual relative risk is significant? my gut tells me no
- highwaylights 3y agoCan’t answer this with data, although I’m not sure how many more headlines we need to see before we can collectively accept that something is very, very wrong with this plane at a fundamental level.
- bronco21016 3y agoGiven the number of airframes that rolled out over the decades that didn’t have this issue, I’m inclined to believe there isn’t necessarily an issue with the aircraft. Now Boeing’s manufacturing quality over the last 5-10 years though, that seems to be a major problem. Look at the issues the US Armed forces have had with receiving incomplete aircraft with missing parts and misplaced tools. The entire industry seems to be under strain since COVID. There was a massive brain drain across the entire system and it’s causing issues at all levels. Many working in the industry are on edge trying to maintain safety.
- SAI_Peregrinus 3y agoThe 737 MAX 9 entered service in 2018. Not even 1 decade for these, let alone multiple "decades".
- bronco21016 3y agoThe fuselage, which failed in this instance, is a stretched copy of every other 737 fuselage.
- ReflectedImage 3y agoVery high. The incident suggests that there will be many more incidents in the years to come with different parts of the plane. It's a quality control thing.
- belter 3y agoUse this: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38891172 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=38891172
- intunderflow 3y agoIf you have a free account on https://www.expertflyer.com/ https://www.expertflyer.com/ and attempt to create a seat alert (but don't go through with it) the Aircraft type will be displayed above the seat map once you type in the flight details. This will also work for aircraft swaps (including last-minute ones) all the way until the plane leaves.
- mannykannot 3y agoMuch more of this sort of thing, and any rebranding might have to do something about the 'Boeing' part of the name. I suppose they could bring back the 'McDonnell Douglas' name... but that is associated with a far worse door-coming-open problem. If Boeing wants to rehabilitate its reputation, showing more respect for the regulatory process would be a good start.
- stouset 3y ago> How do I as a passenger identified all the rebranding permutations of the Max so that I make sure my family is not flying in them? The 737 MAX series has a better safety track record than whatever car your family drives. Note that since the MCAS issue has been fixed, there have been zero incidents that have caused passenger injury or death. Note further that pilots—a cohort of self-interested humans like any other—continue deciding to crew the plane. You don’t hear about pilots backing out of flights or refusing to fly in them. Pilots and air crews aren’t threatening to walk out en masse. This plug design has been in use without incident at least since the -900ER in 2007 and prior to the MAX models. The NTSB report will be worth reading, but I will be good money it won’t have anything in it that warrants the kind of wild frothing at the mouth response here.
- goblinux 3y agoI have never had my car door fall off mid road trip though
- stouset 3y agoPlenty of people have quite literally had the wheels fall off their car.
- hosteur 3y ago> But not at 30,000 ft doing 500mph.
- macintux 3y agoOther than Tesla, how many brand new cars have their wheels fall off?
- belltaco 3y agoSeveral, including recently Toyota and Subaru who have been making cars for more than half a century. You just don't hear about them because negative news about Tesla is heavily amplified on HN, Reddit and in the media, and bad news about other carmakers is buried.
- CubsFan1060 3y agoI use the Flighty app (it's not super cheap), but it notifies me what the planes are and when they change.