5 ms·

Is the FAA going to drag their feet again grounding this plane until the problem is root caused?

dclowd9901 3y ago
I’d be willing to bet all planes built in the last year or so will be grounded immediately. As for others, possibly if they determine the issue is long standing and we’ve just been lucky.
- inferiorhuman 3y ago
  Alaska just grounded all their MAX-9s. http://web.archive.org/web/20240106075153/https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/operations/as-1282/ http://web.archive.org/web/20240106075153/https://news.alask...
  - stouset 3y ago
    Because it makes sense to double check your maintenance when you just experienced an issue overwhelmingly likely to be related to maintenance. These same exact exit plugs have been in service without issue since at least 2007. > Each aircraft will be returned to service only after completion of full maintenance and safety inspections. We anticipate all inspections will be completed in the next few days.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      > you just experienced an issue overwhelmingly likely to be related to maintenance What maintenance? The plane was barely two months old and the part that failed was meant to be something installed permanently, not an emergency exit door that would probably see regular inspections. It's probably "just" sloppy assembly from Boeing/Spirit, which, yes, merit a grounding and inspection.
      - stouset 3y ago
        > What maintenance? The plane was barely two months old A plane is not a car. They don’t go in once a year to tighten some bolts and replace your oil filter. You have no idea how much is taken apart and reassembled on a regular basis.
        inferiorhuman 3y ago
        A modern 737 has A / P1 checks every 500 hours. The plane in question has completed a total of 145 flights so it's quite possible it hadn't even reached the 500 hour threshold yet. While emergency equipment like slides and doors are typically inspected with an "A" check, this wasn't an emergency door that failed. What failed was a permanently installed panel. To inspect it you'd have to pull off interior panels, something that doesn't typically happen on a 737 until a C check (roughly every couple of years or 5,000 hours). So yeah. What maintenance on a nearly brand new plane would require pulling the interior apart and disturbing the emergency exit plug? This wasn't a maintenance issue. Edit: And, no, this plane was never at the Oklahoma City MRO. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f
- stouset 3y ago
  I accept your bet.
- dh2022 3y ago
  Anyone betting some put options on Monday? I am thinking about doing this…
  - charles_f 3y ago
    I was thinking of buying some Airbus stocks
stouset 3y ago
Then you’re going to have to ground all the 737-900ERs (in service since 2007) out there as well, since they use the exact same part. Or maybe, just maybe, this is 1,000x more likely to be a maintenance issue than it is a faulty design. If there were a genuine, ongoing safety issue worth worrying about pilots would stop flying them. People seem to entirely forget that the crew up in the cockpit are humans with an interest in self-preservation.
- cjbprime 3y ago
  A maintenance issue on a ten week old plane?
  - stouset 3y ago
    That plane was literally at their OKC facility for maintenance on Dec 31, so… yes? Planes are not cars. They don’t go in once a year to change the oil filter and tighten a few bolts.
    - inferiorhuman 3y ago
      Doubtful. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f
    - Dah00n 3y ago
      How often are those plugs maintained? As far as I know it is around zero times in the lifetime of the plane and maybe a quick look at 5k hours?
    - philwelch 3y ago
      You should probably get your oil changed more frequently than once a year…but yes, aircraft do need a lot of maintenance.
      - mikem69 3y ago
        What modern car calls for oil changes more than once a year, assuming you’re not exceeding the mileage?
jillesvangurp 3y ago
Grounding is a heavy measure. They're more likely to just inspect other planes with similar doors to see if there's anything obviously wrong with them. Planes are complicated machines and the processes for inspecting them are highly detailed. Once they figure out what happened, the fix might be simply to include some simple check for whatever happened. Just another line item for a routine inspection. And probably the list of things to check for doors is quite long already. In any case, flailing your arms and panicking is not part of the process. This incident seems completely unrelated to previous incidents and it happened many years after the first max flew. Which suggests it's an isolated incident. It's quite possible that the door has not been redesigned for the max (quite likely even, because why would they?) in which case they might have to look at all 737s going back 50 or so years.

I’d be willing to bet all planes built in the last year or so will be grounded immediately. As for others, possibly if they determine the issue is long standing and we’ve just been lucky.

inferiorhuman 3y ago
Alaska just grounded all their MAX-9s. http://web.archive.org/web/20240106075153/https://news.alaskaair.com/alaska-airlines/operations/as-1282/ http://web.archive.org/web/20240106075153/https://news.alask...
- stouset 3y ago
  Because it makes sense to double check your maintenance when you just experienced an issue overwhelmingly likely to be related to maintenance. These same exact exit plugs have been in service without issue since at least 2007. > Each aircraft will be returned to service only after completion of full maintenance and safety inspections. We anticipate all inspections will be completed in the next few days.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    > you just experienced an issue overwhelmingly likely to be related to maintenance What maintenance? The plane was barely two months old and the part that failed was meant to be something installed permanently, not an emergency exit door that would probably see regular inspections. It's probably "just" sloppy assembly from Boeing/Spirit, which, yes, merit a grounding and inspection.
    - stouset 3y ago
      > What maintenance? The plane was barely two months old A plane is not a car. They don’t go in once a year to tighten some bolts and replace your oil filter. You have no idea how much is taken apart and reassembled on a regular basis.
      - inferiorhuman 3y ago
        A modern 737 has A / P1 checks every 500 hours. The plane in question has completed a total of 145 flights so it's quite possible it hadn't even reached the 500 hour threshold yet. While emergency equipment like slides and doors are typically inspected with an "A" check, this wasn't an emergency door that failed. What failed was a permanently installed panel. To inspect it you'd have to pull off interior panels, something that doesn't typically happen on a 737 until a C check (roughly every couple of years or 5,000 hours). So yeah. What maintenance on a nearly brand new plane would require pulling the interior apart and disturbing the emergency exit plug? This wasn't a maintenance issue. Edit: And, no, this plane was never at the Oklahoma City MRO. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f
stouset 3y ago
I accept your bet.
dh2022 3y ago
Anyone betting some put options on Monday? I am thinking about doing this…
- charles_f 3y ago
  I was thinking of buying some Airbus stocks

stouset 3y ago

Then you’re going to have to ground all the 737-900ERs (in service since 2007) out there as well, since they use the exact same part. Or maybe, just maybe, this is 1,000x more likely to be a maintenance issue than it is a faulty design. If there were a genuine, ongoing safety issue worth worrying about pilots would stop flying them. People seem to entirely forget that the crew up in the cockpit are humans with an interest in self-preservation.

cjbprime 3y ago
A maintenance issue on a ten week old plane?
- stouset 3y ago
  That plane was literally at their OKC facility for maintenance on Dec 31, so… yes? Planes are not cars. They don’t go in once a year to change the oil filter and tighten a few bolts.
  - inferiorhuman 3y ago
    Doubtful. https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f https://www.flightradar24.com/data/aircraft/n704al#3374196f
  - Dah00n 3y ago
    How often are those plugs maintained? As far as I know it is around zero times in the lifetime of the plane and maybe a quick look at 5k hours?
  - philwelch 3y ago
    You should probably get your oil changed more frequently than once a year…but yes, aircraft do need a lot of maintenance.
    - mikem69 3y ago
      What modern car calls for oil changes more than once a year, assuming you’re not exceeding the mileage?

jillesvangurp 3y ago

Grounding is a heavy measure. They're more likely to just inspect other planes with similar doors to see if there's anything obviously wrong with them. Planes are complicated machines and the processes for inspecting them are highly detailed. Once they figure out what happened, the fix might be simply to include some simple check for whatever happened. Just another line item for a routine inspection. And probably the list of things to check for doors is quite long already. In any case, flailing your arms and panicking is not part of the process. This incident seems completely unrelated to previous incidents and it happened many years after the first max flew. Which suggests it's an isolated incident. It's quite possible that the door has not been redesigned for the max (quite likely even, because why would they?) in which case they might have to look at all 737s going back 50 or so years.