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I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurizat

I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurization system out of AUTO; you are blaming them for not discovering that a ground engineer had done so, mostly while they fought hypoxia.)

TylerE 3y ago
I retract nothing. The cause of that crash was pilot error. They ignored written procedure, and did not react to multiple serious warnings, including the master caution. Which is something you do not ignore. Also note this was still only an issue because the pilots ALSO refused to verify the position of the aft outflow valve. It was the combination of all these things. So no, there absolutely is not a "press this button every flight or everyone suffocates" button.
- blackoil 3y ago
  So, what you are trying to say there is no button but a "don't switch this off or everyone suffocates" switch.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    more like a "don't throw BOTH of these at the same time, while also ignoring every warning device in the cockpit". The master caution will both flash and say "CAUTION! CAUTION! CAUTION!" You can't miss it.
- cjbprime 3y ago
  You are simultaneously arguing that it's not possible to accidentally kill everyone by having a switch be in the wrong position, and also that when this actually happens in reality it shouldn't count because "that was pilot error". Yes, it was! Those pilots should totally have put that switch in the position that doesn't kill everyone! But they didn't, and then they got too hypoxic to fix it and now everyone's dead. It's almost like there's a switch that it's a really bad idea for pilots to forget about..
  - TylerE 3y ago
    It is not possible for one switch to kill them. It is possible for two switches, and multiple external factors including scandalous levels of procedural error by the Captain, First Officer, and maintenance technician to kill them.
- bombcar 3y ago
  The key with these things is something can be BOTH pilot error AND manufacturing design defect. The MAX itself is an example of this. Both famous crashes definitely were pilot error AND were a bad design allowing that pilot error to occur.

TylerE 3y ago

I retract nothing. The cause of that crash was pilot error. They ignored written procedure, and did not react to multiple serious warnings, including the master caution. Which is something you do not ignore. Also note this was still only an issue because the pilots ALSO refused to verify the position of the aft outflow valve. It was the combination of all these things. So no, there absolutely is not a "press this button every flight or everyone suffocates" button.

blackoil 3y ago
So, what you are trying to say there is no button but a "don't switch this off or everyone suffocates" switch.
- TylerE 3y ago
  more like a "don't throw BOTH of these at the same time, while also ignoring every warning device in the cockpit". The master caution will both flash and say "CAUTION! CAUTION! CAUTION!" You can't miss it.
cjbprime 3y ago
You are simultaneously arguing that it's not possible to accidentally kill everyone by having a switch be in the wrong position, and also that when this actually happens in reality it shouldn't count because "that was pilot error". Yes, it was! Those pilots should totally have put that switch in the position that doesn't kill everyone! But they didn't, and then they got too hypoxic to fix it and now everyone's dead. It's almost like there's a switch that it's a really bad idea for pilots to forget about..
- TylerE 3y ago
  It is not possible for one switch to kill them. It is possible for two switches, and multiple external factors including scandalous levels of procedural error by the Captain, First Officer, and maintenance technician to kill them.
bombcar 3y ago
The key with these things is something can be BOTH pilot error AND manufacturing design defect. The MAX itself is an example of this. Both famous crashes definitely were pilot error AND were a bad design allowing that pilot error to occur.