3 ms·

Isn't this phrase generating ambiguity, in this circumstance, where a better description would not be ambiguous?

cjbprime 3y ago
Yes. I think the aviation community would use something like "explosive uncontrolled depressurization", to distinguish from e.g. someone forgetting to arm the pressurization system.
- TylerE 3y ago
  You can't depressurize what isn't pressurized. Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. The controls are multiply guarded and "normally closed".
  - cjbprime 3y ago
    That sounds lovely, but over here in reality we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 > An investigation into the crash by the Air Accident Investigation and Aviation Safety Board (AAIASB) concluded that the crew had neglected to set the pressurization system to automatic during the take-off checks. This caused the plane not to be pressurized during the flight and resulted in nearly everyone on board suffering from generalized hypoxia, thus resulting in a ghost flight [..] eventually crashed near Grammatiko, Greece, killing all 121 passengers and crew on board. It is the deadliest aviation accident in Greek history.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      That's pilot error. You have to move multiple safeguards and covers to move it OUT of auto in the first place. There is a reason (very poor training and safety practices, often government corruption as well) that you hear about accidents like that happening in Greece, Vietnam or Ethiopia, not the US.
      - cjbprime 3y ago
        I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurization system out of AUTO; you are blaming them for not discovering that a ground engineer had done so, mostly while they fought hypoxia.)
        TylerE 3y ago
        I retract nothing. The cause of that crash was pilot error. They ignored written procedure, and did not react to multiple serious warnings, including the master caution. Which is something you do not ignore. Also note this was still only an issue because the pilots ALSO refused to verify the position of the aft outflow valve. It was the combination of all these things. So no, there absolutely is not a "press this button every flight or everyone suffocates" button.
        blackoil 3y ago
        So, what you are trying to say there is no button but a "don't switch this off or everyone suffocates" switch.
        TylerE 3y ago
        more like a "don't throw BOTH of these at the same time, while also ignoring every warning device in the cockpit". The master caution will both flash and say "CAUTION! CAUTION! CAUTION!" You can't miss it.
        cjbprime 3y ago
        You are simultaneously arguing that it's not possible to accidentally kill everyone by having a switch be in the wrong position, and also that when this actually happens in reality it shouldn't count because "that was pilot error". Yes, it was! Those pilots should totally have put that switch in the position that doesn't kill everyone! But they didn't, and then they got too hypoxic to fix it and now everyone's dead. It's almost like there's a switch that it's a really bad idea for pilots to forget about..
fsckboy 3y ago
>Isn't this phrase generating ambiguity it's not generating ambiguity for the people who need to know for example, air traffic control and other pilots listening on the radio will know that this aircraft needs to be cleared to descend to a lower altitude and other traffic needs to get out of the way, be alert, etc.

Yes. I think the aviation community would use something like "explosive uncontrolled depressurization", to distinguish from e.g. someone forgetting to arm the pressurization system.

TylerE 3y ago
You can't depressurize what isn't pressurized. Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. The controls are multiply guarded and "normally closed".
- cjbprime 3y ago
  That sounds lovely, but over here in reality we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 > An investigation into the crash by the Air Accident Investigation and Aviation Safety Board (AAIASB) concluded that the crew had neglected to set the pressurization system to automatic during the take-off checks. This caused the plane not to be pressurized during the flight and resulted in nearly everyone on board suffering from generalized hypoxia, thus resulting in a ghost flight [..] eventually crashed near Grammatiko, Greece, killing all 121 passengers and crew on board. It is the deadliest aviation accident in Greek history.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    That's pilot error. You have to move multiple safeguards and covers to move it OUT of auto in the first place. There is a reason (very poor training and safety practices, often government corruption as well) that you hear about accidents like that happening in Greece, Vietnam or Ethiopia, not the US.
    - cjbprime 3y ago
      I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurization system out of AUTO; you are blaming them for not discovering that a ground engineer had done so, mostly while they fought hypoxia.)
      - TylerE 3y ago
        I retract nothing. The cause of that crash was pilot error. They ignored written procedure, and did not react to multiple serious warnings, including the master caution. Which is something you do not ignore. Also note this was still only an issue because the pilots ALSO refused to verify the position of the aft outflow valve. It was the combination of all these things. So no, there absolutely is not a "press this button every flight or everyone suffocates" button.
        blackoil 3y ago
        So, what you are trying to say there is no button but a "don't switch this off or everyone suffocates" switch.
        TylerE 3y ago
        more like a "don't throw BOTH of these at the same time, while also ignoring every warning device in the cockpit". The master caution will both flash and say "CAUTION! CAUTION! CAUTION!" You can't miss it.
        cjbprime 3y ago
        You are simultaneously arguing that it's not possible to accidentally kill everyone by having a switch be in the wrong position, and also that when this actually happens in reality it shouldn't count because "that was pilot error". Yes, it was! Those pilots should totally have put that switch in the position that doesn't kill everyone! But they didn't, and then they got too hypoxic to fix it and now everyone's dead. It's almost like there's a switch that it's a really bad idea for pilots to forget about..

fsckboy 3y ago

>Isn't this phrase generating ambiguity it's not generating ambiguity for the people who need to know for example, air traffic control and other pilots listening on the radio will know that this aircraft needs to be cleared to descend to a lower altitude and other traffic needs to get out of the way, be alert, etc.