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The nomenclature is interesting. In my mind, a "depressurization event" would imply that the biggest problem was the depressurization. In other words, that ther

The nomenclature is interesting. In my mind, a "depressurization event" would imply that the biggest problem was the depressurization. In other words, that there was not a big gaping structural hole. If there can be a big hole in the plane and we can call that a "depressurization event", I would like to advocate for changing how we describe this.

function_seven 3y ago
Man gets shot in the leg. Femoral artery hit. Cause of death: "hypotensive event"
- carbocation 3y ago
  I know you're kidding, but we're trained to avoid making that mistake in assignment of cause of death (and in states where I've lived, they give clear instructions on the death paperwork to remind you not to make that kind of mistake)!
- bananapub 3y ago
  this is extremely common in the US, look at almost any headline in a mainstream newspaper about the police murdering someone.
TylerE 3y ago
Aviation is very careful to use specific phraseology. It's a Big Deal(tm) to avoid ambiguity.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- carbocation 3y ago
  Isn't this phrase generating ambiguity, in this circumstance, where a better description would not be ambiguous?
  - cjbprime 3y ago
    Yes. I think the aviation community would use something like "explosive uncontrolled depressurization", to distinguish from e.g. someone forgetting to arm the pressurization system.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      You can't depressurize what isn't pressurized. Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. The controls are multiply guarded and "normally closed".
      - cjbprime 3y ago
        That sounds lovely, but over here in reality we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 > An investigation into the crash by the Air Accident Investigation and Aviation Safety Board (AAIASB) concluded that the crew had neglected to set the pressurization system to automatic during the take-off checks. This caused the plane not to be pressurized during the flight and resulted in nearly everyone on board suffering from generalized hypoxia, thus resulting in a ghost flight [..] eventually crashed near Grammatiko, Greece, killing all 121 passengers and crew on board. It is the deadliest aviation accident in Greek history.
        TylerE 3y ago
        That's pilot error. You have to move multiple safeguards and covers to move it OUT of auto in the first place. There is a reason (very poor training and safety practices, often government corruption as well) that you hear about accidents like that happening in Greece, Vietnam or Ethiopia, not the US.
        cjbprime 3y ago
        I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurization system out of AUTO; you are blaming them for not discovering that a ground engineer had done so, mostly while they fought hypoxia.)
pengaru 3y ago
> not a big gaping structural hole. It's an exit door opening, not some random part of the fuselage developing a potentially structure-compromising hole...
- carbocation 3y ago
  Bad wording on my part since I implied but didn't state the alternative. In my mind, the alternative scenario that would create a depressurization event would be a small hole or a hole that is not visible from the passenger compartment. I.e., a hole from which a passenger or attendant could not exit the plane.
  - pengaru 3y ago
    I'm no expert, but I've always assumed these pressurized cabins aren't exactly hermetically sealed, so a small invisible hole wouldn't noticeably depressurize the plane. My assumption has been there's always fresh air actively added continuously at a rate that can compensate for such small leaks, and that it's just an automatically regulated thing. Maybe a gauge/alarm visible to the pilots would indicate an out of spec level of fresh air entering to maintain pressure, without actually being a "depressurization event"... But a door-sized hole is a whole (har har) different story. Edit: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/53831/are-pressurized-passenger-aircraft-usually-completely-airtight https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/53831/are-press...
    - btgeekboy 3y ago
      Your assumption is correct - air is pushed into the cabin by the engines, and the pressure is controlled by an outflow valve. An unanticipated hole, assuming it was small enough, would just be compensated for.
    - kayodelycaon 3y ago
      It wouldn’t take much of a hole to depressurize the plane. And unplanned holes in a pressure vessel have a tendency to rapidly get larger.
notatoad 3y ago
if the big gaping hole is only a problem because it causes a "depressurization event", then categorizing it as a depressurization event make sense?
- cjbprime 3y ago
  seat you are sitting on gets literally ejected from the airplane "Man, it's unfortunate that there's a problem with the pressurization system in this.. sky."
justin66 3y ago
Disturbing the peace? I got thrown out of a window! What's the fucking charge for getting pushed out of a moving car, huh? Jaywalking?

function_seven 3y ago

Man gets shot in the leg. Femoral artery hit. Cause of death: "hypotensive event"

carbocation 3y ago
I know you're kidding, but we're trained to avoid making that mistake in assignment of cause of death (and in states where I've lived, they give clear instructions on the death paperwork to remind you not to make that kind of mistake)!
bananapub 3y ago
this is extremely common in the US, look at almost any headline in a mainstream newspaper about the police murdering someone.

TylerE 3y ago

Aviation is very careful to use specific phraseology. It's a Big Deal(tm) to avoid ambiguity.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
carbocation 3y ago
Isn't this phrase generating ambiguity, in this circumstance, where a better description would not be ambiguous?
- cjbprime 3y ago
  Yes. I think the aviation community would use something like "explosive uncontrolled depressurization", to distinguish from e.g. someone forgetting to arm the pressurization system.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    You can't depressurize what isn't pressurized. Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. The controls are multiply guarded and "normally closed".
    - cjbprime 3y ago
      That sounds lovely, but over here in reality we have: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helios_Airways_Flight_522 > An investigation into the crash by the Air Accident Investigation and Aviation Safety Board (AAIASB) concluded that the crew had neglected to set the pressurization system to automatic during the take-off checks. This caused the plane not to be pressurized during the flight and resulted in nearly everyone on board suffering from generalized hypoxia, thus resulting in a ghost flight [..] eventually crashed near Grammatiko, Greece, killing all 121 passengers and crew on board. It is the deadliest aviation accident in Greek history.
      - TylerE 3y ago
        That's pilot error. You have to move multiple safeguards and covers to move it OUT of auto in the first place. There is a reason (very poor training and safety practices, often government corruption as well) that you hear about accidents like that happening in Greece, Vietnam or Ethiopia, not the US.
        cjbprime 3y ago
        I feel like you should retract: > Also, there isn't a "if you forget this everyone suffocates" button. (Also note that the pilots did not move the pressurization system out of AUTO; you are blaming them for not discovering that a ground engineer had done so, mostly while they fought hypoxia.)

pengaru 3y ago

> not a big gaping structural hole. It's an exit door opening, not some random part of the fuselage developing a potentially structure-compromising hole...

carbocation 3y ago
Bad wording on my part since I implied but didn't state the alternative. In my mind, the alternative scenario that would create a depressurization event would be a small hole or a hole that is not visible from the passenger compartment. I.e., a hole from which a passenger or attendant could not exit the plane.
- pengaru 3y ago
  I'm no expert, but I've always assumed these pressurized cabins aren't exactly hermetically sealed, so a small invisible hole wouldn't noticeably depressurize the plane. My assumption has been there's always fresh air actively added continuously at a rate that can compensate for such small leaks, and that it's just an automatically regulated thing. Maybe a gauge/alarm visible to the pilots would indicate an out of spec level of fresh air entering to maintain pressure, without actually being a "depressurization event"... But a door-sized hole is a whole (har har) different story. Edit: https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/53831/are-pressurized-passenger-aircraft-usually-completely-airtight https://aviation.stackexchange.com/questions/53831/are-press...
  - btgeekboy 3y ago
    Your assumption is correct - air is pushed into the cabin by the engines, and the pressure is controlled by an outflow valve. An unanticipated hole, assuming it was small enough, would just be compensated for.
  - kayodelycaon 3y ago
    It wouldn’t take much of a hole to depressurize the plane. And unplanned holes in a pressure vessel have a tendency to rapidly get larger.

notatoad 3y ago

if the big gaping hole is only a problem because it causes a "depressurization event", then categorizing it as a depressurization event make sense?

cjbprime 3y ago
seat you are sitting on gets literally ejected from the airplane "Man, it's unfortunate that there's a problem with the pressurization system in this.. sky."

justin66 3y ago

Disturbing the peace? I got thrown out of a window! What's the fucking charge for getting pushed out of a moving car, huh? Jaywalking?