5 ms·

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is require

by gary_0 3y ago

This should not be that hard. How about: - At point of purchase for a consumer device that can view Internet content, the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child, in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such. The child protection settings should be linked to the parent's e-mail address (so they can be lifted when the child is of age, or the device is given to someone else, etc). - Consumer devices must support filtering for underage users (they already do, although perhaps this could be made more standardized and easier to use). - Adult sites are required to list themselves as such so they can be filtered (they already do this quite voluntarily). Of course, this assumes that legislators are making these rules in good faith (I strongly suspect they are not, and thus they are actually unconstitutional attempts to restrict free speech).

rany_ 3y ago
> Adult sites are required to list themselves as such so they can be filtered (they already do this quite voluntarily). There's actually a meta tag that most adult sites set to do this already. It's also used by Google to identify a website as adult for SafeSearch reasons. The process seems simple enough, https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howto https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howto (meta tag) and https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howtofaq#apache https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howtofaq#apache (http header) It is strange web browsers don't take advantage of it, though. This combined with some kind of AI model would work in most cases I bet.
- gary_0 3y ago
  I'm sure that there are browser extensions that use that meta tag. There is no shortage of software options for blocking adult content.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Because they would just download a custom browser that allows it.
thanhhaimai 3y ago
> in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such It's not hard to imagine a jailbreak showing up shortly to defeat it. Even Apple can't prevent jail breaking for their devices. I think it's unreasonable to expect other consumer devices manufacturers to win a game of cats and mouses like that. Requiring legislations on this is even worse. It will serve as a regulatory capture for big corps that can afford to invest on security.
bee_rider 3y ago
These sorts of features shouldn’t be mandatory, if parents want to lock down their kids’ devices they can go find and buy the ones that support that sort of thing. Or install aftermarket software. This is already the way it works. Also underage people could go to the store and lie about their age, so if we want this plan to be effective we’d need to ID everybody buying electronics, which would be annoying. It also isn’t clear what it means for a device to be “for somebody,” if somebody buys a desktop and a kid lives in their house, it is at least possible that the kid will get access to it.
- gary_0 3y ago
  My point wasn't that this should be done, just that it's a more viable option if moral busybody legislators actually want to legally restrict children's access to adult content instead of finding creative ways of harassing Pornhub. Obviously porn blocking should just be something parents should concern themselves with, and parents alone. Software and device vendors already provide all the necessary tools.
  - bee_rider 3y ago
    I think it isn’t a very viable option. I understand the logic of saying to them “here’s a more effective solution, which you would have suggested if you were operating in good faith,” but I think that your solution wouldn’t work, which causes the whole argument to unravel.
    - gary_0 3y ago
      iPhones are pretty locked down, and stand a good chance of allowing parents to totally block adult content. Android and general-purpose computers less so, naturally. But VPNs have already come up as the way around these new age-verification laws, and that didn't stop them. Kids can always find ways around this stuff (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too). Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.
mewpmewp2 3y ago
This means disabling any means of downloading custom software for the under 18, right? Forget coding if you are under 18, because all of that would be so simple to bypass unless you completely lock it all. Games and everything need to be vetted when you are 17? Since if you allow them any kid could also download a custom browser as well to get past that, and if there is a way, this info will be shared amongst kids.
- gary_0 3y ago
  Google Play and the App Store already have account-based restrictions and fairly annoying rules about apps that can access unrestricted content. When I was a kid and smartphones weren't a thing, I knew kids whose parents had installed similar restrictions on their PCs and Macs.
- ttyprintk 3y ago
  Not if the parent controls a screenshot analyzer trained to detect objectionable figures, patterns, and phrases. This would work above the browser and IDE.
  - mewpmewp2 3y ago
    Maybe could even have a drone follow your kid before they are 18 to make sure they do nothing else questionable as well?
baby_souffle 3y ago
Couldn’t a proxy just bypass this filter? Just as with the “you must be at least 18 to view this site, only click ok if you’re at least 18” popups, I’m pretty sure a smart 17 year old could figure out that notpornhub.com silently drops the special filter tag but is otherwise identical to pornhub.com
- gary_0 3y ago
  And a VPN bypasses these age-verification restrictions some states are adding. And kids find ways of buying alcohol too (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too). Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.
  - anonzzzies 3y ago
    Most of the my friends when I was a high school kid in the 80s had access to porn, alcohol, weed and were having sex under 18. All not allowed by their/my parents, but no ended up even remotely bad or damaged. It’s just growing up.
    - huytersd 3y ago
      But did they have access to 24/7 always on social media shaming and bullying?
      - anonzzzies 3y ago
        No but is this 18 check for all social media? I didn’t get that from the article. I would vote for that over checks for porn.
pavel_lishin 3y ago
> the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child Is there a penalty if they don't? Is there a penalty if an adult lies? Is there a penalty if an underage person pretends to be an adult?
- anon291 3y ago
  Why is it any different than alcohol? Typically the penalty is banning sales at that store.
  - pavel_lishin 3y ago
    Maybe it wouldn't be, but if you're going to declare that "something is simple" and provide a solution that's based on rules, you need to include the penalty for breaking those rules.

by gary_0 3y ago

rany_ 3y ago

> Adult sites are required to list themselves as such so they can be filtered (they already do this quite voluntarily). There's actually a meta tag that most adult sites set to do this already. It's also used by Google to identify a website as adult for SafeSearch reasons. The process seems simple enough, https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howto https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howto (meta tag) and https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howtofaq#apache https://www.rtalabel.org/index.html?content=howtofaq#apache (http header) It is strange web browsers don't take advantage of it, though. This combined with some kind of AI model would work in most cases I bet.

gary_0 3y ago
I'm sure that there are browser extensions that use that meta tag. There is no shortage of software options for blocking adult content.
mewpmewp2 3y ago
Because they would just download a custom browser that allows it.

thanhhaimai 3y ago

> in which case either the device is placed in "child safe" mode, or printed instructions are directly provided giving instructions to do such It's not hard to imagine a jailbreak showing up shortly to defeat it. Even Apple can't prevent jail breaking for their devices. I think it's unreasonable to expect other consumer devices manufacturers to win a game of cats and mouses like that. Requiring legislations on this is even worse. It will serve as a regulatory capture for big corps that can afford to invest on security.

bee_rider 3y ago

These sorts of features shouldn’t be mandatory, if parents want to lock down their kids’ devices they can go find and buy the ones that support that sort of thing. Or install aftermarket software. This is already the way it works. Also underage people could go to the store and lie about their age, so if we want this plan to be effective we’d need to ID everybody buying electronics, which would be annoying. It also isn’t clear what it means for a device to be “for somebody,” if somebody buys a desktop and a kid lives in their house, it is at least possible that the kid will get access to it.

gary_0 3y ago
My point wasn't that this should be done, just that it's a more viable option if moral busybody legislators actually want to legally restrict children's access to adult content instead of finding creative ways of harassing Pornhub. Obviously porn blocking should just be something parents should concern themselves with, and parents alone. Software and device vendors already provide all the necessary tools.
- bee_rider 3y ago
  I think it isn’t a very viable option. I understand the logic of saying to them “here’s a more effective solution, which you would have suggested if you were operating in good faith,” but I think that your solution wouldn’t work, which causes the whole argument to unravel.
  - gary_0 3y ago
    iPhones are pretty locked down, and stand a good chance of allowing parents to totally block adult content. Android and general-purpose computers less so, naturally. But VPNs have already come up as the way around these new age-verification laws, and that didn't stop them. Kids can always find ways around this stuff (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too). Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.

mewpmewp2 3y ago

This means disabling any means of downloading custom software for the under 18, right? Forget coding if you are under 18, because all of that would be so simple to bypass unless you completely lock it all. Games and everything need to be vetted when you are 17? Since if you allow them any kid could also download a custom browser as well to get past that, and if there is a way, this info will be shared amongst kids.

gary_0 3y ago
Google Play and the App Store already have account-based restrictions and fairly annoying rules about apps that can access unrestricted content. When I was a kid and smartphones weren't a thing, I knew kids whose parents had installed similar restrictions on their PCs and Macs.
ttyprintk 3y ago
Not if the parent controls a screenshot analyzer trained to detect objectionable figures, patterns, and phrases. This would work above the browser and IDE.
- mewpmewp2 3y ago
  Maybe could even have a drone follow your kid before they are 18 to make sure they do nothing else questionable as well?

baby_souffle 3y ago

Couldn’t a proxy just bypass this filter? Just as with the “you must be at least 18 to view this site, only click ok if you’re at least 18” popups, I’m pretty sure a smart 17 year old could figure out that notpornhub.com silently drops the special filter tag but is otherwise identical to pornhub.com

gary_0 3y ago
And a VPN bypasses these age-verification restrictions some states are adding. And kids find ways of buying alcohol too (when I was in high school eons ago, just about everyone was underage drinking, and a lot of my friends had porno mags too). Fortunately, most democratic countries will be constitutionally prevented from enacting full-blown police states to stop kids from doing naughty things. Hopefully.
- anonzzzies 3y ago
  Most of the my friends when I was a high school kid in the 80s had access to porn, alcohol, weed and were having sex under 18. All not allowed by their/my parents, but no ended up even remotely bad or damaged. It’s just growing up.
  - huytersd 3y ago
    But did they have access to 24/7 always on social media shaming and bullying?
    - anonzzzies 3y ago
      No but is this 18 check for all social media? I didn’t get that from the article. I would vote for that over checks for porn.

pavel_lishin 3y ago

> the salesperson (or web store) is required to ask if the device is for an underage child Is there a penalty if they don't? Is there a penalty if an adult lies? Is there a penalty if an underage person pretends to be an adult?

anon291 3y ago
Why is it any different than alcohol? Typically the penalty is banning sales at that store.
- pavel_lishin 3y ago
  Maybe it wouldn't be, but if you're going to declare that "something is simple" and provide a solution that's based on rules, you need to include the penalty for breaking those rules.