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As a recent homeowner, I've looked into some of this stuff, and my conclusion across the board has always been - it's never worth it. Better airtight windows?

As a recent homeowner, I've looked into some of this stuff, and my conclusion across the board has always been - it's never worth it. Better airtight windows? Not worth it. Heatpump? Not worth it. Recycling/whatever? Not worth it. Solar? Rarely worth it. The basic math is that if you have a payback period of over 20 years then you'd do just as well to put that money in the market and then keep paying your extra electric bill. And on top of it, that's assuming your new thing (solar/whatever) works 100% perfectly with 0 effort or thought for 20 straight years. I really want the math to work out on heatpumps and such, but when they are 30k installed it's just not there. I don't know the exact answers, but it does feel suspicious. (Edit: Caveat, I want to acknowledge that there is a totally valid moral reason to do all of this, and I don't intend to negate that.)

nolroz 3y ago
Dang! The only quote I got for a heat pump that was over to $20k was the geothermal source variety. I'd make sure you check with a few vendors and stay up on possible rebates in your area.
more_corn 3y ago
My solar is worth it. $20k to generate all the power my home will use for the next 30 years. Net metering really helps make the numbers work.
- zug_zug 3y ago
  Glad that's the case. I do find that in certain areas, with certain electricity costs, solar can be worth it. But I also find that a lot of people are miscalculating their break-even point. If I invest $X, the default return is 5% forever for infinity years with 0 maintenance. So if invest $X in solar, and return 5% for 30 years and then the system breaks, then I lost money compared bonds/whatever. (Again, most of solar investment drives technology improvements and is a great way to help the world become more sustainable)
nullc 3y ago
Some of this stuff is only not worth it because it's insanely overpriced. DWHR is a fine example of this: the device is just a couple feet of double walled copper pipe. It should be dirt cheap, but instead they sell for $800. The real limit for DWHR is that you need a vertical drop to get sheet flow, a horizontal section would be much less effective. Also there is a moderate plumbing complication from the fact that your 'cold' water in the shower also needs to be sourced from the DWHR to not have a massive heat leak. With the high price of the DWHR and the plumbing complications it'll never pay for itself except with the highest shower usage in the coldest climates. That said, cost shouldn't be the only consideration. Even disregarding environmental concerns a building that is more passively efficient will work better during outages/energy shortages.

nolroz 3y ago

Dang! The only quote I got for a heat pump that was over to $20k was the geothermal source variety. I'd make sure you check with a few vendors and stay up on possible rebates in your area.

more_corn 3y ago

My solar is worth it. $20k to generate all the power my home will use for the next 30 years. Net metering really helps make the numbers work.

zug_zug 3y ago
Glad that's the case. I do find that in certain areas, with certain electricity costs, solar can be worth it. But I also find that a lot of people are miscalculating their break-even point. If I invest $X, the default return is 5% forever for infinity years with 0 maintenance. So if invest $X in solar, and return 5% for 30 years and then the system breaks, then I lost money compared bonds/whatever. (Again, most of solar investment drives technology improvements and is a great way to help the world become more sustainable)

nullc 3y ago

Some of this stuff is only not worth it because it's insanely overpriced. DWHR is a fine example of this: the device is just a couple feet of double walled copper pipe. It should be dirt cheap, but instead they sell for $800. The real limit for DWHR is that you need a vertical drop to get sheet flow, a horizontal section would be much less effective. Also there is a moderate plumbing complication from the fact that your 'cold' water in the shower also needs to be sourced from the DWHR to not have a massive heat leak. With the high price of the DWHR and the plumbing complications it'll never pay for itself except with the highest shower usage in the coldest climates. That said, cost shouldn't be the only consideration. Even disregarding environmental concerns a building that is more passively efficient will work better during outages/energy shortages.