3 ms·

> Its behavior seems needlessly antagonistic. It is just standard fare across the modern bigtech world. Prior to the iPhone / iOS, Apple would have happily bu

by jorvi 3y ago

> Its behavior seems needlessly antagonistic. It is just standard fare across the modern bigtech world. Prior to the iPhone / iOS, Apple would have happily built in support for something like Google Cast, because they operated from the idea that their products should be the most useful for their customer. These days it’s all about forcing people into your ecosystem for increased lock-in. Thus, no baked in support for Cast (except in the Apple Music app on Android). As far as Apple is concerned, if you are visiting a friend and want to play some music on his Chromecast, the solution is to buy your friend an Apple TV for AirPlay.

pmarreck 3y ago
> Prior to the iPhone / iOS, Apple would have happily built in support for something like Google Cast I really don't think you can assume this. For example, a long time ago in computer years, Apple rolled out "Yellow Box for Windows" which was a way to get NeXTStep apps running on Windows http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/apple/os_pictures/ybnt4/ http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/apple/os_pictures/ybn... as part of Rhapsody Developer Release 2 (this was a prerelease OS X)... and then promptly ditched it. Being able to develop once and then deploy to both OS X and Windows sounds great to developers, but think about this: If you had access to Mac apps from a Windows machine, then why would you buy a Mac, when Apple is competing on quality and not price? It'd be a win for app developers but a big "lose" for Apple. So why would Apple have ever built a way to cast to Google Cast if they already had an AppleTV product that wasn't competing on price with Google Cast? (AppleTV's are great, btw)
- bloppe 3y ago
  Google can and has done the same thing. They stopped supporting YouTube on FireTV because Amazon refused to sell ChromeCast devices on their website. All these competitors have options to force you to buy their hardware just to use their services and vice versa. Google could start slowly degrading all their services for users without Chromebooks. Microsoft could force you to buy a Windows phone just to use ChatGPT. Clearly, all of this is bad for users across the board. Apple is by far the most aggressive when it comes to this kind of anticompetitive bundling. You can't just say "of course they want to be anticompetitive, that's just business!". You're supposed to not let them pull this shit.
- jorvi 3y ago
  > So why would Apple have ever built a way to cast to Google Cast if they already had an AppleTV product that wasn't competing on price with Google Cast? (AppleTV's are great, btw) Because it makes iPhone and Mac users their (digital) life better? Let me give you a different example: you visit a hotel. They have Cast-enabled TV’s, but those do not support AirPlay. Anyone with an iPhone or Mac is SoL. It literally goes against Apple’s old “It Just Works” adage, when they probably would have looked at Cast as just another protocol to support. The only reason to do that is if you think the net decrease in usability will increase the company’s profitability via lock-in. To be clear, it is not just Apple doing this. A different vector is a product like YouTube: often when I’m scrolling the comments after a video ends, an ad will play that extends down vertically, making me tap it. If I swipe it away, the entire screen shifts again, but now there is an ad strip at the bottom, that I accidentally tap again, taking me out of the app. This is obviously horrid UX, but Google doesn’t care because the only thing Google wants from you is eyes on ads. They don’t have to deliver a good product (users first), they just have to make the product barely not-shitty-enough that you won’t leave. A great counter-example is 1Password: they support numerous ways to export their own or import other services their vaults. If you have a running subscription with a competitor, they will credit you the remainder of your bill if you switch. If you asks customer support for help if you are switching to, say, Bitwarden, they’ll help you. They believe in their product and that you’ll either come back or stick with them because it is the best on the market. Which frankly, for now, it is. Due to user-first perspective :)
  - soperj 3y ago
    > Because it makes iPhone and Mac users their (digital) life better? They have never cared about this.
    - pmarreck 3y ago
      That's literally bullshit. They literally wrote the book on human interface guidelines https://andymatuschak.org/files/papers/Apple%20Human%20Interface%20Guidelines%201987.pdf https://andymatuschak.org/files/papers/Apple%20Human%20Inter...
    - 3y ago
davisr 3y ago
Free software (libre -- free as in freedom) is the antidote to this entire mess. We should always choose free software whenever we can, so that we cannot get used by agents of corporate media in their hunt for more loot. https://fsf.org https://fsf.org https://gnu.org https://gnu.org
- cyanydeez 3y ago
  the problem isn't just producer caused, consumers use Apple products as status systems. libre software is not going to stop that.
  - davisr 3y ago
    Oh, you're right, let's just not even try and wallow in self-pity while we continue to be slaves to megacorporations. Or...just choose free software yourself, so that _you_ don't get used by these entities who seek to eliminate computer user freedom. I run Trisquel GNU/Linux-libre on my laptop. It is totally possible to use 100% free/libre software. I use it for professional work. If GNU/Linux ain't your gig, lots of people also run OpenBSD.
adamomada 3y ago
Google chrome cast is a really bad example of something they could add because it is s locked down proprietary technology that you need to have permission from Google to use now and at all times in the future. The open cast protocol (miracast?) was lacking in some ways or other and therefore they chose to make something that did what they wanted and also could guarantee it would still be working down the road (AirPlay) What they should have done is open up AirPlay and perhaps turn it into the next standard that everyone expects to be able to use.
- jorvi 3y ago
  > Google chrome cast is a really bad example of something they could add because it is s locked down proprietary technology that you need to have permission from Google to use now and at all times in the future. They have added it though, in Apple Music on Android, so they clearly already have both a license and a developed Cast “app” that gets loaded onto the Chromecast. > The open cast protocol (miracast?) It was DIAL. Why it died is anyone’s guess. Perhaps Google wanted more control, and Netflix et al didn’t feel like carrying the development burden.
- nox101 3y ago
  You need permission to use Chrome Cast? My Hyatt hotel supports Chromecast to the TVs in the rooms in the hotel. At no time did I have to give permission to Google to use it from my iPhone Or are you meaning some other permission?
  - danielheath 3y ago
    The TV manufacturers obtained permission to ship devices with support for chromecast
lamontcg 3y ago
> As far as Apple is concerned, if you are visiting a friend and want to play some music on his Chromecast, the solution is to buy your friend an Apple TV for AirPlay. airplay works fine on my roku, OTOH my chromecast is becoming useless because i don't use chrome as a browser.
cyanydeez 3y ago
the lockin isn't just producer side, many consumers love ve the conspicuous consumption and exclusivity this create a toxic capitalism and antisocial behavior the clearly mimics the current American class struggle.

by jorvi 3y ago

pmarreck 3y ago

> Prior to the iPhone / iOS, Apple would have happily built in support for something like Google Cast I really don't think you can assume this. For example, a long time ago in computer years, Apple rolled out "Yellow Box for Windows" which was a way to get NeXTStep apps running on Windows http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/apple/os_pictures/ybnt4/ http://www.shawcomputing.net/resources/apple/os_pictures/ybn... as part of Rhapsody Developer Release 2 (this was a prerelease OS X)... and then promptly ditched it. Being able to develop once and then deploy to both OS X and Windows sounds great to developers, but think about this: If you had access to Mac apps from a Windows machine, then why would you buy a Mac, when Apple is competing on quality and not price? It'd be a win for app developers but a big "lose" for Apple. So why would Apple have ever built a way to cast to Google Cast if they already had an AppleTV product that wasn't competing on price with Google Cast? (AppleTV's are great, btw)

bloppe 3y ago
Google can and has done the same thing. They stopped supporting YouTube on FireTV because Amazon refused to sell ChromeCast devices on their website. All these competitors have options to force you to buy their hardware just to use their services and vice versa. Google could start slowly degrading all their services for users without Chromebooks. Microsoft could force you to buy a Windows phone just to use ChatGPT. Clearly, all of this is bad for users across the board. Apple is by far the most aggressive when it comes to this kind of anticompetitive bundling. You can't just say "of course they want to be anticompetitive, that's just business!". You're supposed to not let them pull this shit.
jorvi 3y ago
> So why would Apple have ever built a way to cast to Google Cast if they already had an AppleTV product that wasn't competing on price with Google Cast? (AppleTV's are great, btw) Because it makes iPhone and Mac users their (digital) life better? Let me give you a different example: you visit a hotel. They have Cast-enabled TV’s, but those do not support AirPlay. Anyone with an iPhone or Mac is SoL. It literally goes against Apple’s old “It Just Works” adage, when they probably would have looked at Cast as just another protocol to support. The only reason to do that is if you think the net decrease in usability will increase the company’s profitability via lock-in. To be clear, it is not just Apple doing this. A different vector is a product like YouTube: often when I’m scrolling the comments after a video ends, an ad will play that extends down vertically, making me tap it. If I swipe it away, the entire screen shifts again, but now there is an ad strip at the bottom, that I accidentally tap again, taking me out of the app. This is obviously horrid UX, but Google doesn’t care because the only thing Google wants from you is eyes on ads. They don’t have to deliver a good product (users first), they just have to make the product barely not-shitty-enough that you won’t leave. A great counter-example is 1Password: they support numerous ways to export their own or import other services their vaults. If you have a running subscription with a competitor, they will credit you the remainder of your bill if you switch. If you asks customer support for help if you are switching to, say, Bitwarden, they’ll help you. They believe in their product and that you’ll either come back or stick with them because it is the best on the market. Which frankly, for now, it is. Due to user-first perspective :)
- soperj 3y ago
  > Because it makes iPhone and Mac users their (digital) life better? They have never cared about this.
  - pmarreck 3y ago
    That's literally bullshit. They literally wrote the book on human interface guidelines https://andymatuschak.org/files/papers/Apple%20Human%20Interface%20Guidelines%201987.pdf https://andymatuschak.org/files/papers/Apple%20Human%20Inter...
  - 3y ago

davisr 3y ago

Free software (libre -- free as in freedom) is the antidote to this entire mess. We should always choose free software whenever we can, so that we cannot get used by agents of corporate media in their hunt for more loot. https://fsf.org https://fsf.org https://gnu.org https://gnu.org

cyanydeez 3y ago
the problem isn't just producer caused, consumers use Apple products as status systems. libre software is not going to stop that.
- davisr 3y ago
  Oh, you're right, let's just not even try and wallow in self-pity while we continue to be slaves to megacorporations. Or...just choose free software yourself, so that _you_ don't get used by these entities who seek to eliminate computer user freedom. I run Trisquel GNU/Linux-libre on my laptop. It is totally possible to use 100% free/libre software. I use it for professional work. If GNU/Linux ain't your gig, lots of people also run OpenBSD.

adamomada 3y ago

Google chrome cast is a really bad example of something they could add because it is s locked down proprietary technology that you need to have permission from Google to use now and at all times in the future. The open cast protocol (miracast?) was lacking in some ways or other and therefore they chose to make something that did what they wanted and also could guarantee it would still be working down the road (AirPlay) What they should have done is open up AirPlay and perhaps turn it into the next standard that everyone expects to be able to use.

jorvi 3y ago
> Google chrome cast is a really bad example of something they could add because it is s locked down proprietary technology that you need to have permission from Google to use now and at all times in the future. They have added it though, in Apple Music on Android, so they clearly already have both a license and a developed Cast “app” that gets loaded onto the Chromecast. > The open cast protocol (miracast?) It was DIAL. Why it died is anyone’s guess. Perhaps Google wanted more control, and Netflix et al didn’t feel like carrying the development burden.
nox101 3y ago
You need permission to use Chrome Cast? My Hyatt hotel supports Chromecast to the TVs in the rooms in the hotel. At no time did I have to give permission to Google to use it from my iPhone Or are you meaning some other permission?
- danielheath 3y ago
  The TV manufacturers obtained permission to ship devices with support for chromecast

lamontcg 3y ago

> As far as Apple is concerned, if you are visiting a friend and want to play some music on his Chromecast, the solution is to buy your friend an Apple TV for AirPlay. airplay works fine on my roku, OTOH my chromecast is becoming useless because i don't use chrome as a browser.

cyanydeez 3y ago

the lockin isn't just producer side, many consumers love ve the conspicuous consumption and exclusivity this create a toxic capitalism and antisocial behavior the clearly mimics the current American class struggle.