4 ms·

You really think someone shooting up heroin or fentanyl and someone going rock climbing or playing jazz are the same thing? Why the insanely unrelated analogie

by lgkk 3y ago

You really think someone shooting up heroin or fentanyl and someone going rock climbing or playing jazz are the same thing? Why the insanely unrelated analogies? I specifically said drugs, like the kind you see when you pass any alley near Civic Center or downtown SF with dozens of people just laying there and drug dealers with backpacks walking around. Is that a sign of a good society? Those people don’t want help and they sure as hell aren’t engaging in anything productive like building software, buildings, or offering any services on Taskrabbit.. yes it’s sad but there’s also a balance and line between what’s acceptable and not for a functioning society. This is a minority % wise of society (don’t want help, aren’t interested in getting clean) and they cause a disproportionate level of destruction. The problem is drugs and people are willing to do whatever it takes across the drug supply chain to keep it operating. Btw you need to be productive in order to afford rock climbing or skiing or even gaming on a pc… Unbelievable.

mrshadowgoose 3y ago
It would be nice if you actually answered the questions that were posed. Instead, you just once again reiterated that you don't approve of how other people choose to spend their time.
- lgkk 3y ago
  I gave you an answer. Literally picked a couple things I like (pc gaming and rock climbing) which require me to maintain health insurance and a good financial status so I can buy a 4090 and whatever to play some games. I have to be productive to enjoy those things. That’s not even what we are talking about, and I don’t understand why you conflate those with cartels who behead and dismember people and people who just disturb the peace or attack people while on hard drugs. And yeah I guess I don’t approve seeing people destroy my city with drugs and violence. I’m paying more than half of my annual personal income in taxes, and what I have to do is to avoid certain areas of my city at night because it’s not safe and not a nice sight with people self harming themselves voluntarily and on purpose.
  - mrshadowgoose 3y ago
    Ok. So let's consider PC gaming. There are many people out there who consider that activity to be harmful, and to not be a productive use of one's time. So....are you going to give up gaming? > And yeah I guess I don’t approve seeing people destroy my city with drugs and violence. Sounds like your actual problem is with violence, have you considered advocating for better policing against that?
    - lgkk 3y ago
      Am I going to give someone a disease if I leave a needle out? Am I going to start attacking people who are just drinking coffee while having a business meeting (literally happened to me, dude ran at me and pushed me and then ran away while screaming)? I really don’t understand how you don’t get that being high on certain drugs and being really harmful to other people is comparable to a video game addict who at worst would just stay in their room and smell bad? Are you trolling? Anyway I said my piece above, I guess people like you and me will always contend with each other because I guess some people are okay and maybe want to see more of the current situation in tenderloin, civic center, etc. Cheers!
      - realce 3y ago
        > Am I going to give someone a disease if I leave a needle out? You are engaging with a severely addictive product produced by addiction-merchants that produces nothing other than good feelings for the user. Your disease of gaming addiction is contagious to others if they see you enjoying it or hear about you enjoying it. The supply chains needed to support your drug of choice involve ripping millions of pounds of rare materials out of the dirt of poor nations that have virtually no labor protections. The thing you enjoy has outrageous externalities that society chooses to accept and legally profit from. There are probably 20x more human life-hours devoured by gaming than by being high all the time, and much less good art is made by the gamers. "dude ran at me and pushed me..." Yes, in this completely heartless monstrosity we call "American society" there's no help for people who are crazy. Many of those people turn into drug addicts simply looking for relief from their mental illnesses. Seeing this in action can be scary or violent, but this is the outcome you support if you're a tax-payer in America. The issue is that we have a horrible, violent, selfish, greedy, and self-important society and culture in America. Being exposed to that is uncomfortable, but that's what it is. Trying to imprison the outcomes of that society, or ignore it, or condemn it, etc, is an effort to extract your personal culpability from it. We created this place where people would rather be unhealthy than be healthy. It's human nature to react to a sick place like this, and it's totally unproductive to blame the least amongst us in society for a problem created by the wealthiest amongst us. Don't like drug dealers? Me neither - the State should provide free drugs. Don't like drug addicts? Me neither - the State should provide all the support needed to rehabilitate citizens, which goes much farther than putting people in a clinic. Don't like drugs? Everything in America is drugs in one form or another.
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago
> You really think someone shooting up heroin or fentanyl and someone going rock climbing or playing jazz are the same thing? You really think someone smoking a bowl or drinking a glass of alcohol after a day at work is the same thing as shooting up heroin or fentanyl? Seriously, that was a very uncharitable take of their comment. You really did just say this about "do[ing] drugs" which includes "drinking alcohol" as well as "smoking marijuana" as well as "taking medication". I'm someone who might smoke a bowl when I get home from work; do I not do productive things? As you said, I have to be productive in order to afford my vice. Consider also: one might take a hit of something and then start playing jazz.
stetrain 3y ago
> I specifically said drugs, like the kind you see when you pass any alley near Civic Center or downtown SF with dozens of people just laying there and drug dealers with backpacks walking around. There is a very wide variety of things referred to as "drugs" including ones that are in various ways controlled or illegal, and some that aren't, on a state by state and country by country basis. The ones you are referring to are a subset, and the addicts who "don't want help" are likely a subset of those users and the only ones you see and take notice of. So just saying "drugs" is probably over-generalized.

by lgkk 3y ago

mrshadowgoose 3y ago

It would be nice if you actually answered the questions that were posed. Instead, you just once again reiterated that you don't approve of how other people choose to spend their time.

lgkk 3y ago
I gave you an answer. Literally picked a couple things I like (pc gaming and rock climbing) which require me to maintain health insurance and a good financial status so I can buy a 4090 and whatever to play some games. I have to be productive to enjoy those things. That’s not even what we are talking about, and I don’t understand why you conflate those with cartels who behead and dismember people and people who just disturb the peace or attack people while on hard drugs. And yeah I guess I don’t approve seeing people destroy my city with drugs and violence. I’m paying more than half of my annual personal income in taxes, and what I have to do is to avoid certain areas of my city at night because it’s not safe and not a nice sight with people self harming themselves voluntarily and on purpose.
- mrshadowgoose 3y ago
  Ok. So let's consider PC gaming. There are many people out there who consider that activity to be harmful, and to not be a productive use of one's time. So....are you going to give up gaming? > And yeah I guess I don’t approve seeing people destroy my city with drugs and violence. Sounds like your actual problem is with violence, have you considered advocating for better policing against that?
  - lgkk 3y ago
    Am I going to give someone a disease if I leave a needle out? Am I going to start attacking people who are just drinking coffee while having a business meeting (literally happened to me, dude ran at me and pushed me and then ran away while screaming)? I really don’t understand how you don’t get that being high on certain drugs and being really harmful to other people is comparable to a video game addict who at worst would just stay in their room and smell bad? Are you trolling? Anyway I said my piece above, I guess people like you and me will always contend with each other because I guess some people are okay and maybe want to see more of the current situation in tenderloin, civic center, etc. Cheers!
    - realce 3y ago
      > Am I going to give someone a disease if I leave a needle out? You are engaging with a severely addictive product produced by addiction-merchants that produces nothing other than good feelings for the user. Your disease of gaming addiction is contagious to others if they see you enjoying it or hear about you enjoying it. The supply chains needed to support your drug of choice involve ripping millions of pounds of rare materials out of the dirt of poor nations that have virtually no labor protections. The thing you enjoy has outrageous externalities that society chooses to accept and legally profit from. There are probably 20x more human life-hours devoured by gaming than by being high all the time, and much less good art is made by the gamers. "dude ran at me and pushed me..." Yes, in this completely heartless monstrosity we call "American society" there's no help for people who are crazy. Many of those people turn into drug addicts simply looking for relief from their mental illnesses. Seeing this in action can be scary or violent, but this is the outcome you support if you're a tax-payer in America. The issue is that we have a horrible, violent, selfish, greedy, and self-important society and culture in America. Being exposed to that is uncomfortable, but that's what it is. Trying to imprison the outcomes of that society, or ignore it, or condemn it, etc, is an effort to extract your personal culpability from it. We created this place where people would rather be unhealthy than be healthy. It's human nature to react to a sick place like this, and it's totally unproductive to blame the least amongst us in society for a problem created by the wealthiest amongst us. Don't like drug dealers? Me neither - the State should provide free drugs. Don't like drug addicts? Me neither - the State should provide all the support needed to rehabilitate citizens, which goes much farther than putting people in a clinic. Don't like drugs? Everything in America is drugs in one form or another.

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 3y ago

> You really think someone shooting up heroin or fentanyl and someone going rock climbing or playing jazz are the same thing? You really think someone smoking a bowl or drinking a glass of alcohol after a day at work is the same thing as shooting up heroin or fentanyl? Seriously, that was a very uncharitable take of their comment. You really did just say this about "do[ing] drugs" which includes "drinking alcohol" as well as "smoking marijuana" as well as "taking medication". I'm someone who might smoke a bowl when I get home from work; do I not do productive things? As you said, I have to be productive in order to afford my vice. Consider also: one might take a hit of something and then start playing jazz.

stetrain 3y ago

> I specifically said drugs, like the kind you see when you pass any alley near Civic Center or downtown SF with dozens of people just laying there and drug dealers with backpacks walking around. There is a very wide variety of things referred to as "drugs" including ones that are in various ways controlled or illegal, and some that aren't, on a state by state and country by country basis. The ones you are referring to are a subset, and the addicts who "don't want help" are likely a subset of those users and the only ones you see and take notice of. So just saying "drugs" is probably over-generalized.