4 ms·

I really hope Big Tech, including but not limited to Apple, gets broken up, they've gotten too big and have expanded far beyond tech, and I'm not sure we're all

I really hope Big Tech, including but not limited to Apple, gets broken up, they've gotten too big and have expanded far beyond tech, and I'm not sure we're all the better for it.

s3r3nity 3y ago
>I really hope Big Tech, including but not limited to Apple, gets broken up, they've gotten too big and have expanded far beyond tech, and I'm not sure we're all the better for it. Many of our retirement and wealth portfolios would beg to differ. S&P minus FAANG is virtually flat for the past few years (and depending upon which estimate you observe, likely negative if you factor inflation); almost all of the growth in the S&P 500 is from tech growth.
- checker 3y ago
  "Too big to fail"
- pixl97 3y ago
  All hail Moloch, who giveth and taketh our money under threat of distress if we do not offer all to him.
  - ianbutler 3y ago
    What’s your preferred alternative?
    - Podgajski 3y ago
      Not financial capitalism?
- waynesonfire 3y ago
  > S&P minus FAANG is virtually flat for the past few years I don't know if this is true or not; but regardless, that's the whole point of this. The US won't be moving to file sweeping anti-trust cases against failing companies. We need more competitors, we need more diverse tech companies. A few large players that are siphoning all the value and dictating how technology evolves isn't optimal for the things I value. The growth will happen regardless, don't worry.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    > The growth will happen regardless, don't worry. I do not see why this has to be true (especially with declining fertility rates). Scale itself is a competitive advantage, especially when competing against a well oiled machine like China. The game is global, not national.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
wharvle 3y ago
In my perfect world the bad practices Apple's resistance of which are a core thing that makes their products attractive—would be outlawed. Totally destroyed, eliminated from the market. Then they'd go after Apple (yes! Please! Do! ... but maybe remove the bad shit they use their vertical integration and market power to shield me from, first? That'd be nice.)
summerlight 3y ago
I understand the feeling looking for justice served by "breaking up", but in this case I don't think that's ever going to work. In fact, that will make even harder to regulate them in future since they're nominally smaller entities, but forming a cohesive cartel. The market itself is reinforcing this distorted incentive structure, so even if you break them up into 100 smaller companies they will keep doing so in a more secretive way since they will still operate in the same market with aligned incentives. Breaking up works effectively only when you can effectively split the market those are operating on, something like AT&T or Standard oil. Big techs are not bound on geographic areas, so you're going to spend several years on uncertain fights only to make it even worse. What we really need is precisely targeted legislation that will prevent anti-competitive business practice itself. EU has been successful here with GDPR, DMA and they're willing to extend them even further. US is holding everyone back here. This is a highly political problem. Any judicial treatment will only be temporary mitigation and those will quickly find out a way to circumvent it.
throw_m239339 3y ago
There are anti-trust concerns then there is geopolitics, with big businesses that are easier to control for US politicians... I mean the whole Prism thing relied on big tech olygopoly.
2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago
People often say they're being "punished for their success" but I think that's an interesting concept. Apple raked in $93bn in profits last year. It's such an aberration compared to other companies I feel like there must be anti-competitive barriers somewhere. You expect me to believe that no competition is able to take a slice of that? It's too juicy not to! Competition should be eroding those margins to a more reasonable figure and it's not IMO.
- Detrytus 3y ago
  Why is it so hard to believe that competing products are simply inferior? $93bn in profits might seem huge, but is it really such an outlier for a company of this size? Microsoft profits are over $150bn.
  - lotsofpulp 3y ago
    Microsoft’s profit is $72B for the most recent year. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/net...
    - Detrytus 3y ago
      Sorry, it seems I confused gross and net profit numbers. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/gross-margin https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/gro...
  - munk-a 3y ago
    Yes - Apple is literally the outlier. Apple is the single most profitable company by a wide margin.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > I feel like there must be anti-competitive barriers somewhere The barrier is inventing and organizing the logistics of delivering the most cutting edge technology and the accompanying software and support to hundreds of millions of people around the world every year. If anyone else could do it, they would do it. Samsung and Alphabet come sort of close.
CatWChainsaw 3y ago
We're very likely worse off. Google and Apple having absolute authority over digital lives is bad enough, but giving them the power to destroy your actual life would be sufficient reason alone.

I really hope Big Tech, including but not limited to Apple, gets broken up, they've gotten too big and have expanded far beyond tech, and I'm not sure we're all the better for it.

s3r3nity 3y ago

>I really hope Big Tech, including but not limited to Apple, gets broken up, they've gotten too big and have expanded far beyond tech, and I'm not sure we're all the better for it. Many of our retirement and wealth portfolios would beg to differ. S&P minus FAANG is virtually flat for the past few years (and depending upon which estimate you observe, likely negative if you factor inflation); almost all of the growth in the S&P 500 is from tech growth.

checker 3y ago
"Too big to fail"
pixl97 3y ago
All hail Moloch, who giveth and taketh our money under threat of distress if we do not offer all to him.
- ianbutler 3y ago
  What’s your preferred alternative?
  - Podgajski 3y ago
    Not financial capitalism?
waynesonfire 3y ago
> S&P minus FAANG is virtually flat for the past few years I don't know if this is true or not; but regardless, that's the whole point of this. The US won't be moving to file sweeping anti-trust cases against failing companies. We need more competitors, we need more diverse tech companies. A few large players that are siphoning all the value and dictating how technology evolves isn't optimal for the things I value. The growth will happen regardless, don't worry.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  > The growth will happen regardless, don't worry. I do not see why this has to be true (especially with declining fertility rates). Scale itself is a competitive advantage, especially when competing against a well oiled machine like China. The game is global, not national.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

wharvle 3y ago

In my perfect world the bad practices Apple's resistance of which are a core thing that makes their products attractive—would be outlawed. Totally destroyed, eliminated from the market. Then they'd go after Apple (yes! Please! Do! ... but maybe remove the bad shit they use their vertical integration and market power to shield me from, first? That'd be nice.)

summerlight 3y ago

I understand the feeling looking for justice served by "breaking up", but in this case I don't think that's ever going to work. In fact, that will make even harder to regulate them in future since they're nominally smaller entities, but forming a cohesive cartel. The market itself is reinforcing this distorted incentive structure, so even if you break them up into 100 smaller companies they will keep doing so in a more secretive way since they will still operate in the same market with aligned incentives. Breaking up works effectively only when you can effectively split the market those are operating on, something like AT&T or Standard oil. Big techs are not bound on geographic areas, so you're going to spend several years on uncertain fights only to make it even worse. What we really need is precisely targeted legislation that will prevent anti-competitive business practice itself. EU has been successful here with GDPR, DMA and they're willing to extend them even further. US is holding everyone back here. This is a highly political problem. Any judicial treatment will only be temporary mitigation and those will quickly find out a way to circumvent it.

throw_m239339 3y ago

There are anti-trust concerns then there is geopolitics, with big businesses that are easier to control for US politicians... I mean the whole Prism thing relied on big tech olygopoly.

2OEH8eoCRo0 3y ago

People often say they're being "punished for their success" but I think that's an interesting concept. Apple raked in $93bn in profits last year. It's such an aberration compared to other companies I feel like there must be anti-competitive barriers somewhere. You expect me to believe that no competition is able to take a slice of that? It's too juicy not to! Competition should be eroding those margins to a more reasonable figure and it's not IMO.

Detrytus 3y ago
Why is it so hard to believe that competing products are simply inferior? $93bn in profits might seem huge, but is it really such an outlier for a company of this size? Microsoft profits are over $150bn.
- lotsofpulp 3y ago
  Microsoft’s profit is $72B for the most recent year. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/net-income https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/net...
  - Detrytus 3y ago
    Sorry, it seems I confused gross and net profit numbers. https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/gross-margin https://www.macrotrends.net/stocks/charts/MSFT/microsoft/gro...
- munk-a 3y ago
  Yes - Apple is literally the outlier. Apple is the single most profitable company by a wide margin.
lotsofpulp 3y ago
> I feel like there must be anti-competitive barriers somewhere The barrier is inventing and organizing the logistics of delivering the most cutting edge technology and the accompanying software and support to hundreds of millions of people around the world every year. If anyone else could do it, they would do it. Samsung and Alphabet come sort of close.

CatWChainsaw 3y ago

We're very likely worse off. Google and Apple having absolute authority over digital lives is bad enough, but giving them the power to destroy your actual life would be sufficient reason alone.