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If a car ends up on the pavement and kills someone, then there should be at the very least an investigation to see if charges should be pressed. Given that ped
by ktizo 15y ago
If a car ends up on the pavement and kills someone, then there should be at the very least an investigation to see if charges should be pressed.
Given that pedestrians stepping into the road seems criminal by default in many US cities, then surely so should be cars driving on the pavement.
Or would you be able to get out of a jaywalking ticket by claiming that it was accidental?
- Swizec 15y agoTickets aren't "criminal". It's just a ticket. And yes, drivers do get ticketed and fined when they drive on the pavement. But a ticket does not criminal charges make.
- bmelton 15y agoPerhaps I'm less on the semantic side of things, but you get tickets for violating the law, or penal code. The definition of criminal is (I'm guessing) 'person who breaks the law'. I suspect that, in light of that, you get tickets for criminal behavior. There are less criminal charges, for sure -- like driving at night without working headlights, but that still violates the law requiring you to maintain a safe and drivable vehicle, and is as such a criminal act.
- lazerwalker 15y agoThere is a legal distinction between 'civil' and 'criminal' law. To oversimplify things, 'criminal' laws are ones that reflect some sort of moral code (e.g. laws against murder and manslaughter), and 'civil' laws are ones that are simply rules (e.g. speed limits, jaywalking). Civil cases can't be punished with jail time or anything like that.
- bmelton 15y agoI don't know that I'm yet convinced that speeding is a civil offense. Can you give me an example of a civil offense that I would get a ticket for? I have always thought of civil laws as those that corporations need to abide. Perhaps I'm wrong? As for speed limits and jaywalking specifically, you appear to be right that they aren't criminal offenses until a threshold has been crossed (e.g., speeding 15 over the limit). But those seem to be considered 'infractions', and I admittedly don't know where the lines are.
- dripton 15y agoIn the US we have three kinds of charges: felonies, misdemeanors, and infractions. Felonies are major criminal offenses. Misdemeanors are minor criminal offenses. Infractions are oopsies. Most traffic charges are treated as infractions, even when they lead to levels of damage or injury that would ordinarily mean a misdemeanor or felony. Cars are somehow "special." If you want to get away with murder in the US, definitely use a car not a gun. (But don't be drunk. Drunk driving is no longer socially acceptable -- if you're drunk and kill someone with your car, that's serious jail time. If you're just a bad driver and kill someone with your car, that's an oopsie.)
- ghurlman 15y agoWhat state do you live in where vehicular manslaughter isn't a felony charge? Rich and/or well-connected folks notwithstanding...
- dripton 15y agoIt's theoretically a felony charge in every state, but in practice, drivers who run over pedestrians or cyclists often get charged with traffic infractions or don't get charged at all.
- ghurlman 15y agoIf you think a ticket can't be punished with jail time, try not paying one and then don't show up to court.
- mickt 15y agoIs the US unique in that you can go to jail for not paying a ticket for a minor traffic violation?
- j_baker 15y agoCivil cases are when the court is acting to resolve a dispute between two parties. If I sued you, it would be a civil case. Criminal cases are when a law is broken. Therefore, jaywalking is indeed a criminal offense, albeit a very minor one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(common_law) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_law_(common_law) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_law
- lazerwalker 15y agoI've learned something new today. Thanks!
- ghurlman 15y agoIt is indeed a criminal charge. By paying the ticket, you are submitting a guilty plea. A low-level charge, sure (depending on the ticket), but a charge nevertheless.
- noahc 15y agoIt sounds to me like all charges are criminal in your mind if they involve a finding of the court. This is not true
- ghurlman 15y agoJust the findings that involve charges stemming from the penal code, and involve being found guilty beyond a reasonable doubt vs. the civil standard of a preponderance of evidence.