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Reminder that McDonnell-Douglas, operating as Boeing, owns Boeing Defense Space & Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,_Space_%26_Security http

Reminder that McDonnell-Douglas, operating as Boeing, owns Boeing Defense Space & Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,_Space_%26_Security https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_Defense,_Space_%26_Secu... which consolidates "Boeing Military Airplane Company; Hughes Satellite Systems; Hughes Helicopters minus the civilian helicopter line (which was divested as MD Helicopters); Piasecki Helicopter, subsequently known as Boeing Vertol and then Boeing Helicopters; the St. Louis–based McDonnell division of the former McDonnell Douglas Company; and the former North American Aviation division of Rockwell International." making it not just too big to fail, but too important to US and allies' defense to fail. I guess defense could be split from commercial aviation which could be reduced to producing parts to keep fleets in operation until Airbus can replace all planes over 30 or 40 years. Some of McD-D's commercial planes have a second life as military, though, e.g. the P-8 Poseidon based on the 737-800. I took a couple of cross-USA flights recently, some on 737-800 and some on 737 MAX 8 and noted that the 800's cruising speed is faster (cf. United's Hemispheres magazine). I suppose the carbon footprint of the MAX is lower, but whatever happened to flying at mach 0.9 ?

jrockway 3y ago
> whatever happened to flying at mach 0.9 Someone made a website showing which airlines have the most delays, so airlines just added an hour of padding to every scheduled flight, and then fly slower / burn less fuel when there aren't delays. We do the same thing with commuter trains. Someone was mad that they were late to work one day during a snowstorm or something. Now trains with a top speed of 80mph take 80 minutes to go 40 miles. But are on time 99% of the time! Look at all the time saved from not being late to work! Personally, I'd rather be 4 hours late to work once a year and save 1 hour commuting every day. But the masses have spoken and decided the opposite. I work from home, so not my problem, I guess.
- groby_b 3y ago
  Meanwhile, Japan operates trains at 200mph and operators apologize profusely should they actually experience a 25 second delay. Maybe the issue isn't that people complain about shitty service, but the fact that the service is shitty in the first place. At 80mph and at 30mph.
  - makestuff 3y ago
    Japanese public transportation made me never want to take the Amtrak/Subway/US Airlines again. It was astonishing how well it works there.
  - jrockway 3y ago
    Japan is better than the US, but I've definitely been standing around in Shinjuku station waiting an extra long time for a train, freezing my butt off, while the signs scroll "because of heavy snow in Gunma prefecture, trains are running with 15-30 minute delays." Weather is weather. My favorite US-ism is when Andrew Cuomo (the governor of New York at the time) shut down the NYC subway because of a forecast of 24" of snow. The reason the subway was built was because of the transport disruptions caused by a big snowstorm in 1910. To close it for a snowstorm was the ultimate irony. The snowstorm didn't materialize and he looked like an idiot. The MTA then developed an actual service plan to keep the subway open during snow, and it hasn't been a problem since. (Well, not for me. For people that live on non-underground lines, they are probably annoyed. I think the pre-Cuomo policy was "play it by ear and hope for the best". That was rarely ideal but probably let a few people get home from work before trains started getting stuck. Now nobody gets stuck, but they also get stranded when the snowstorm ends up not being bad.)
    - groby_b 3y ago
      I mean, yes, of course, weather is weather. Nobody expects perfection in the face of force majeure. US railways, however, seem to specialize in delivering the minimum possible experience that doesn't result in open riots.
    - TylerE 3y ago
      I guess the issue is that the yards where the trains are stabled are all above ground. If you can't get the crews to them, inspect, and operate them safely, you can't get them in the tunnels. Subway trains are all also 3rd or 4th rail powered, so I can see how lots of (effectively) standing water makes people nervous. The mitigation I suppose would be to get them underground in advance, and when/if the snow hits you just run with what you've got.
MilStdJunkie 3y ago
I wouldn't be horribly surprised by a Boeing breakup, honestly. Even BDS might splinter down into smaller units. The real question in a Boeing breakup, IMHO, would be what happens with BGS, because the org as a whole does an insane amount of hide-the-salami with repair/return/rebuild.
- worik 3y ago
  In a sane world it would be nationalised In this world, and that country, it won't happen, and if it did it would be a cure worse than the disease
syntheticnature 3y ago
Less about carbon footprint and more about fuel costs, IIRC; passengers are generally more cost-sensitive than time-sensitive, so if a plane can only hit mach 0.8 (or even worse) but has better fuel economy at the relevant speeds, that's better for the airline.
Denvercoder9 3y ago
> whatever happened to flying at mach 0.9 Airlines found out that people, in aggregate, care more about ticket prices than about speed. Flying a bit slower allows planes to be more fuel efficient, and thus allows them to offer lower ticket prices.
- paledot 3y ago
  *higher profits on the same ticket prices

jrockway 3y ago

> whatever happened to flying at mach 0.9 Someone made a website showing which airlines have the most delays, so airlines just added an hour of padding to every scheduled flight, and then fly slower / burn less fuel when there aren't delays. We do the same thing with commuter trains. Someone was mad that they were late to work one day during a snowstorm or something. Now trains with a top speed of 80mph take 80 minutes to go 40 miles. But are on time 99% of the time! Look at all the time saved from not being late to work! Personally, I'd rather be 4 hours late to work once a year and save 1 hour commuting every day. But the masses have spoken and decided the opposite. I work from home, so not my problem, I guess.

groby_b 3y ago
Meanwhile, Japan operates trains at 200mph and operators apologize profusely should they actually experience a 25 second delay. Maybe the issue isn't that people complain about shitty service, but the fact that the service is shitty in the first place. At 80mph and at 30mph.
- makestuff 3y ago
  Japanese public transportation made me never want to take the Amtrak/Subway/US Airlines again. It was astonishing how well it works there.
- jrockway 3y ago
  Japan is better than the US, but I've definitely been standing around in Shinjuku station waiting an extra long time for a train, freezing my butt off, while the signs scroll "because of heavy snow in Gunma prefecture, trains are running with 15-30 minute delays." Weather is weather. My favorite US-ism is when Andrew Cuomo (the governor of New York at the time) shut down the NYC subway because of a forecast of 24" of snow. The reason the subway was built was because of the transport disruptions caused by a big snowstorm in 1910. To close it for a snowstorm was the ultimate irony. The snowstorm didn't materialize and he looked like an idiot. The MTA then developed an actual service plan to keep the subway open during snow, and it hasn't been a problem since. (Well, not for me. For people that live on non-underground lines, they are probably annoyed. I think the pre-Cuomo policy was "play it by ear and hope for the best". That was rarely ideal but probably let a few people get home from work before trains started getting stuck. Now nobody gets stuck, but they also get stranded when the snowstorm ends up not being bad.)
  - groby_b 3y ago
    I mean, yes, of course, weather is weather. Nobody expects perfection in the face of force majeure. US railways, however, seem to specialize in delivering the minimum possible experience that doesn't result in open riots.
  - TylerE 3y ago
    I guess the issue is that the yards where the trains are stabled are all above ground. If you can't get the crews to them, inspect, and operate them safely, you can't get them in the tunnels. Subway trains are all also 3rd or 4th rail powered, so I can see how lots of (effectively) standing water makes people nervous. The mitigation I suppose would be to get them underground in advance, and when/if the snow hits you just run with what you've got.

MilStdJunkie 3y ago

I wouldn't be horribly surprised by a Boeing breakup, honestly. Even BDS might splinter down into smaller units. The real question in a Boeing breakup, IMHO, would be what happens with BGS, because the org as a whole does an insane amount of hide-the-salami with repair/return/rebuild.

worik 3y ago
In a sane world it would be nationalised In this world, and that country, it won't happen, and if it did it would be a cure worse than the disease

syntheticnature 3y ago

Less about carbon footprint and more about fuel costs, IIRC; passengers are generally more cost-sensitive than time-sensitive, so if a plane can only hit mach 0.8 (or even worse) but has better fuel economy at the relevant speeds, that's better for the airline.

Denvercoder9 3y ago

> whatever happened to flying at mach 0.9 Airlines found out that people, in aggregate, care more about ticket prices than about speed. Flying a bit slower allows planes to be more fuel efficient, and thus allows them to offer lower ticket prices.

paledot 3y ago
*higher profits on the same ticket prices