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"Webcams that enable you to look anywhere on your screen." Minor aside, but does anyone actually care about this? Forever ago, I was told to try and look into

by tqi 3y ago

"Webcams that enable you to look anywhere on your screen." Minor aside, but does anyone actually care about this? Forever ago, I was told to try and look into the camera in order to project eye contact during video calls, but now that just seems like a cultural hangup that arose from people not being familiar with video calling. Now that it is more ubiquitous, I feel like we all have collectively agreed that the eye contact thing is unnecessary?

toomim 3y ago
It's not just cultural. We've evolved to recognize eye-contact. Newborn babies immediately know when you look at them. Eye contact with a dog communicates dominance. You've just acclimated to losing that signal during video chats. Bring it back, and you'll have a richer experience. More generally, we have evolved special neural hardware to recognize gaze, with a special case for when gaze is directed at our eyes. Gaze is important because it's a sign of where people are attending. And as Herb Simon said: "in the information age, attention is the scarce resource."
hn8305823 3y ago
No, and I'm absolutely not willing to give up the mechanical camera shutter I have on my laptop for that feature. They could add a mechanical shutter to the hidden camera in the frame but why do all of this. Edit: Should have said "mechanical lens cover" instead of "mechanical camera shutter"
- asow92 3y ago
  Just so you know, in photography, "mechanical camera shutter" can mean something very different from what I think you mean.
  - heleninboodler 3y ago
    This is an odd, almost reverse nitpick. The word "shutter" is general-purpose. It's literally a thing that shuts the opening. There's one inside an SLR camera, as you point out. There's often one on a webcam. They are common on windows on houses.
    - asow92 3y ago
      All words are general-purpose, but when we arrange them they adopt new meaning. I'm not nitpicking, and just pointing out that the meaning of those words as arranged may not be perceived as the author originally intended. Alternatively, I'd suggest a different arrangement of words like "lens cover", "webcam cover", "webcam cover slider", or "webcam privacy shield" to be more accurate. Of course we were able to grock what "mechanical camera shutter" meant in this context, although at first I was confused and wondered if in fact there were webcams with mechanical focal plane or leaf shutters.
cududa 3y ago
Idk, I’ve noticed when I’m on sales calls, some sales people make a very conscious effort to look into their webcam, and the effect of them “looking at me” in the video feels: A)Initially, a little bit odd, because 98% of people don’t do it/ I’m not use to seeing that B) Then feels pleasantly good/ natural. I’m not going to make a decision on a performative behavior like looking at the webcam - at least, not consciously - but I’m sure if/ when this becomes the norm, webcams NOT focused on eyes will seem very “off”
krisoft 3y ago
> but now that just seems like a cultural hangup that arose from people not being familiar with video calling. Eye contact is about as old as humankind. So maybe in 300,000 years we can check if we get over it with video calls. It is not that communication is not possible without it. It just removes an additional layer. Eye contact conveys all kind of useful meta data. Depending on the circumstances and other verbal and non-verbal cues it can mean "I'm listening to you", "oh, maybe let's push more on this topic", "have you also caught that?", "perhaps it would be wiser to not talk about that", "i'm specifically addressing you" or "can you help me out here?". And these are just the ones immediately applicable in business settings. Let's not even talk about all the ways it can be used during flirting. And it works on a subconscious level. I regularly DM role playing games, both online and in-person. The lack of eye contact is a serious impediment in online games. One can use eye contact, or the lack of it to judge engagement. One can signal with eye contact turns or who an NPC is talking to. It can also be used to help less talkative players seize amazing role playing moments. Can we get by without it? Sure. We can communicate anything using a 1-bit communication channel using morse code. It is a bit like dancing in shackles. Can be done, just leaves something extra on the table.
- tqi 3y ago
  To clarify I didn't mean that all eye-contact is cultural, I meant specifically during video calls. I was told that if I didn't look into the camera during my interview, it would be perceived as rude or unprofessional.
layer8 3y ago
No, we haven’t agreed that. I continue to feel somewhat rude when not looking at the camera during a conversation. And it matters to nonverbal communication.
- tqi 3y ago
  I also still habitually look at the camera (due to said training early in my career), but I think that the important thing is I don't think it is rude when other people don't do it. And in my experience, the vast majority of people I interact with don't either, which is why it feels like we have agreed that it is not important.
jameshart 3y ago
Consider the possibilities when the screen-glass camera view could be different for each of the participants on your videoconference screen - so as you shift your eyes from one to another, they get different experience of eye contact. Staring into your camera on a multiparty call means everyone feels like they are getting your eye contact, which devalues it. Eye contact moving between participants is the gel that holds conversations together and it's why video calls are still stuck in the conference call era in terms of talking over one another.
perryizgr8 3y ago
I feel this is not an issue with 13 inch laptops. But I recently installed a webcam on my 32 inch desktop monitor and it is really distracting how I'm always looking way below the camera. Currently using Nvidia broadcast to make it better but it does lose tracking if I look at the bottom of the screen.

by tqi 3y ago

toomim 3y ago

It's not just cultural. We've evolved to recognize eye-contact. Newborn babies immediately know when you look at them. Eye contact with a dog communicates dominance. You've just acclimated to losing that signal during video chats. Bring it back, and you'll have a richer experience. More generally, we have evolved special neural hardware to recognize gaze, with a special case for when gaze is directed at our eyes. Gaze is important because it's a sign of where people are attending. And as Herb Simon said: "in the information age, attention is the scarce resource."

hn8305823 3y ago

No, and I'm absolutely not willing to give up the mechanical camera shutter I have on my laptop for that feature. They could add a mechanical shutter to the hidden camera in the frame but why do all of this. Edit: Should have said "mechanical lens cover" instead of "mechanical camera shutter"

asow92 3y ago
Just so you know, in photography, "mechanical camera shutter" can mean something very different from what I think you mean.
- heleninboodler 3y ago
  This is an odd, almost reverse nitpick. The word "shutter" is general-purpose. It's literally a thing that shuts the opening. There's one inside an SLR camera, as you point out. There's often one on a webcam. They are common on windows on houses.
  - asow92 3y ago
    All words are general-purpose, but when we arrange them they adopt new meaning. I'm not nitpicking, and just pointing out that the meaning of those words as arranged may not be perceived as the author originally intended. Alternatively, I'd suggest a different arrangement of words like "lens cover", "webcam cover", "webcam cover slider", or "webcam privacy shield" to be more accurate. Of course we were able to grock what "mechanical camera shutter" meant in this context, although at first I was confused and wondered if in fact there were webcams with mechanical focal plane or leaf shutters.

cududa 3y ago

Idk, I’ve noticed when I’m on sales calls, some sales people make a very conscious effort to look into their webcam, and the effect of them “looking at me” in the video feels: A)Initially, a little bit odd, because 98% of people don’t do it/ I’m not use to seeing that B) Then feels pleasantly good/ natural. I’m not going to make a decision on a performative behavior like looking at the webcam - at least, not consciously - but I’m sure if/ when this becomes the norm, webcams NOT focused on eyes will seem very “off”

krisoft 3y ago

> but now that just seems like a cultural hangup that arose from people not being familiar with video calling. Eye contact is about as old as humankind. So maybe in 300,000 years we can check if we get over it with video calls. It is not that communication is not possible without it. It just removes an additional layer. Eye contact conveys all kind of useful meta data. Depending on the circumstances and other verbal and non-verbal cues it can mean "I'm listening to you", "oh, maybe let's push more on this topic", "have you also caught that?", "perhaps it would be wiser to not talk about that", "i'm specifically addressing you" or "can you help me out here?". And these are just the ones immediately applicable in business settings. Let's not even talk about all the ways it can be used during flirting. And it works on a subconscious level. I regularly DM role playing games, both online and in-person. The lack of eye contact is a serious impediment in online games. One can use eye contact, or the lack of it to judge engagement. One can signal with eye contact turns or who an NPC is talking to. It can also be used to help less talkative players seize amazing role playing moments. Can we get by without it? Sure. We can communicate anything using a 1-bit communication channel using morse code. It is a bit like dancing in shackles. Can be done, just leaves something extra on the table.

tqi 3y ago
To clarify I didn't mean that all eye-contact is cultural, I meant specifically during video calls. I was told that if I didn't look into the camera during my interview, it would be perceived as rude or unprofessional.

layer8 3y ago

No, we haven’t agreed that. I continue to feel somewhat rude when not looking at the camera during a conversation. And it matters to nonverbal communication.

tqi 3y ago
I also still habitually look at the camera (due to said training early in my career), but I think that the important thing is I don't think it is rude when other people don't do it. And in my experience, the vast majority of people I interact with don't either, which is why it feels like we have agreed that it is not important.

jameshart 3y ago

Consider the possibilities when the screen-glass camera view could be different for each of the participants on your videoconference screen - so as you shift your eyes from one to another, they get different experience of eye contact. Staring into your camera on a multiparty call means everyone feels like they are getting your eye contact, which devalues it. Eye contact moving between participants is the gel that holds conversations together and it's why video calls are still stuck in the conference call era in terms of talking over one another.

perryizgr8 3y ago

I feel this is not an issue with 13 inch laptops. But I recently installed a webcam on my 32 inch desktop monitor and it is really distracting how I'm always looking way below the camera. Currently using Nvidia broadcast to make it better but it does lose tracking if I look at the bottom of the screen.