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> The individualism and “nuclearization” of the western family is the root problem. It's probably not a problem or a root problem, it's just a cultural feature

> The individualism and “nuclearization” of the western family is the root problem. It's probably not a problem or a root problem, it's just a cultural feature that's experiencing challenges due to changing economic factors and bad regulation. It's ok and normal that the expectation in some countries including the United States is that people are more individualistic and that nuclear families tend to be the norm. I'd argue that the problem that's evading us here isn't solved by increases in communal living (although boarding houses and single-unit apartments with common spaces could help - but good luck enforcing cleanliness standards since we're a bunch of animals), but instead is solved by building with appropriate levels of density such that regardless of your living arrangement preferences you can still live near enough other people, restaurants, doctors offices, work, etc. and activities that are appropriate for the stage of life you are in. If you are single you might be renting or living in a small studio apartment. You don't have to hate living alone when you don't have to spend all day cooped up unless you want to drive 15 miles to participate in society. You can walk out your front door. The married (and obviously wealthy) couple can invite the neighbors over for a BBQ and to hang out by the pool. But you can't do that really in the suburbs. The four Catholic girls can still live in their long house and probably have an easier time participating in local charity or prayer events since they don't have to drive to go participate in those activities and make them a chore. Etc.

giantg2 3y ago
"You don't have to hate living alone when you don't have to spend all day cooped up unless you want to drive 15 miles to participate in society. You can walk out your front door." For some people, walking out their front door to be with nature might be their preference. "The married (and obviously wealthy) couple can invite the neighbors over for a BBQ and to hang out by the pool. But you can't do that really in the suburbs." I'm baffled by this statement. I don't have a pool and I'm not wealthy, but we still invite neighbors over for a cookout. This seems more normal in the suburbs that rurally or even in the city (although some places have block parties).
- bombcar 3y ago
  I think people often have a vastly different opinion of the suburbs if they don't live there or they live in an "age-inappropriate" one which will often occur if you're living at home, for example. You may be the only 25-30 year old in a neighborhood that consists entirely of people ... your parent's age. That's going to have obvious issues unless you go out of your way to be friendly and outgoing to people who likely have vastly different schedules than you do. Whereas if you're a young family living in a suburb full of young families, you're likely going to "fit in" easier, and even if you don't go out of your way to meet people you'll continue to run into them because external factors are similar (bus arrives at the same time, school activities are similar, kids escaped and are riding the dog into the sunset, etc). Suburbs naturally tend toward this age-based stratification because of how easy and similar they are, and just from building schedules. Almost all the new homes in developments around here are "children" homes, clearly visible from the playsets in the backyards. Those houses will now be "in sync" for decades from that. Cities often are more mixed (though I would argue that suburbs should be, too), and even if they're not you can quickly escape to "your people."
  - giantg2 3y ago
    I don't know. The suburbs I've been in seem to be pretty age diverse.
    - ericmay 3y ago
      The suburbs I've lived in have been both age-diverse and culturally diverse, but they tend to not be income or "status" diverse. You don't have a lot of poor artists in your neighborhood, for example. The main problem is the design, not the people. The design makes it much, much more difficult to have spontaneous interactions with those in your neighborhood because you aren't walking around in your neighborhood because there's nothing to look at and aimless walking isn't very popular and so you just drive a car to the grocery store where you maintain anonymity and you can't even get to know the workers there because they're transient (many good/bad reasons for this). Additionally there is a cultural stigma around what amounts to being too friendly with your neighbors and that general pervades the suburban landscape. Obviously not everyone is like that, nor are all suburban neighborhoods the same, but as someone who has family members like this and has grown up around it and now lives in a walkable neighborhood it's striking how clear and obvious it is to me. I live in Columbus. My brother says "can't do it there are too many people on the streets and sidewalks". That's the lived experience for many Americans who reside in the suburbs and it is specifically chosen to live that way to avoid other people and instead stay inside most of the time. That's why the houses are so large and why there are pools and things. The point is to not go outside of your house or engage in a risky exchange with your neighbor.

giantg2 3y ago

"You don't have to hate living alone when you don't have to spend all day cooped up unless you want to drive 15 miles to participate in society. You can walk out your front door." For some people, walking out their front door to be with nature might be their preference. "The married (and obviously wealthy) couple can invite the neighbors over for a BBQ and to hang out by the pool. But you can't do that really in the suburbs." I'm baffled by this statement. I don't have a pool and I'm not wealthy, but we still invite neighbors over for a cookout. This seems more normal in the suburbs that rurally or even in the city (although some places have block parties).

bombcar 3y ago
I think people often have a vastly different opinion of the suburbs if they don't live there or they live in an "age-inappropriate" one which will often occur if you're living at home, for example. You may be the only 25-30 year old in a neighborhood that consists entirely of people ... your parent's age. That's going to have obvious issues unless you go out of your way to be friendly and outgoing to people who likely have vastly different schedules than you do. Whereas if you're a young family living in a suburb full of young families, you're likely going to "fit in" easier, and even if you don't go out of your way to meet people you'll continue to run into them because external factors are similar (bus arrives at the same time, school activities are similar, kids escaped and are riding the dog into the sunset, etc). Suburbs naturally tend toward this age-based stratification because of how easy and similar they are, and just from building schedules. Almost all the new homes in developments around here are "children" homes, clearly visible from the playsets in the backyards. Those houses will now be "in sync" for decades from that. Cities often are more mixed (though I would argue that suburbs should be, too), and even if they're not you can quickly escape to "your people."
- giantg2 3y ago
  I don't know. The suburbs I've been in seem to be pretty age diverse.
  - ericmay 3y ago
    The suburbs I've lived in have been both age-diverse and culturally diverse, but they tend to not be income or "status" diverse. You don't have a lot of poor artists in your neighborhood, for example. The main problem is the design, not the people. The design makes it much, much more difficult to have spontaneous interactions with those in your neighborhood because you aren't walking around in your neighborhood because there's nothing to look at and aimless walking isn't very popular and so you just drive a car to the grocery store where you maintain anonymity and you can't even get to know the workers there because they're transient (many good/bad reasons for this). Additionally there is a cultural stigma around what amounts to being too friendly with your neighbors and that general pervades the suburban landscape. Obviously not everyone is like that, nor are all suburban neighborhoods the same, but as someone who has family members like this and has grown up around it and now lives in a walkable neighborhood it's striking how clear and obvious it is to me. I live in Columbus. My brother says "can't do it there are too many people on the streets and sidewalks". That's the lived experience for many Americans who reside in the suburbs and it is specifically chosen to live that way to avoid other people and instead stay inside most of the time. That's why the houses are so large and why there are pools and things. The point is to not go outside of your house or engage in a risky exchange with your neighbor.