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I would have appreciated it if the article could have elaborated a bit more on why the Navajo Nation considers this a form of desecration, beyond the vague stat

by yesco 3y ago

I would have appreciated it if the article could have elaborated a bit more on why the Navajo Nation considers this a form of desecration, beyond the vague statement about the moon being a sacred place for them. At face value this seems both completely absurd and arbitrary, so I can't help but wonder if there is some context I'm missing here, because otherwise it just seems like the leadership of the Navajo Nation is trying to deliberately hurt their own credibility. If they make objections in the future about desecration of sacred land, it will be easier to argue their objections are frivolous by using this as an example going forward. An unfortunate outcome for them.

giraffe_lady 3y ago
It is almost always safe to assume no one is setting out to deliberately hurt their own credibility.
- yesco 3y ago
  Obviously I didn't mean that literally
lolc 3y ago
While I know nothing of the Navajo, the moon and the sun are revered by many people. They are literally seen as gods by some religions. I have no trouble believing that they see this as desecration without having to actually delve into their beliefs. But yea, would be interesting to know what it is to them. There are many obstacles to living on the moon, but I don't think their belief will bar us from burying people there. Like other religions, believers will have to disconnect their god from the physical moon body.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
emtrw 3y ago
[flagged]
- falseprofit 3y ago
  I can’t see how keeping human remains off of the moon is about to spread AIDS, so at least for now this seems to be an unfair comparison. Can you see the dash of magical thinking present in the desire to put those remains on the moon in the first place?
mcint 3y ago
Paraphrasing from the article, shortened again, placing human remains and other things could be perceived as discards, is tantamount to desecration. In response, the President of the Navajo Nation, Buu Nygren, has filed a formal objection with NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation over what he calls an act of desecration. "It is crucial to emphasize that the moon holds a sacred position in many Indigenous cultures, including ours," Nygren wrote in a letter dated Dec. 21. *"The act of depositing human remains and other materials, which could be perceived as discards in any other location, on the moon is tantamount to desecration of this sacred space."* It seems like human remains can get news attention, and their objection lies more with other aspects--if I were pressed to guess, against commercial use of space. This article is about the NASA response, and links to an earlier article [1] about the complaint According to Nygren, this has been an ongoing concern that "echoes back to the late 1990s, when the National Aeronautics and Space Administration sent the Lunar Prospector, carrying the remains of [geologist] Eugene Shoemaker, to the moon. At the time, Navajo Nation President Albert Hale voiced our objections regarding this action. In response, NASA issued a formal apology and promised consultation with tribes before authorizing further missions carrying human remains to the moon." and Nygren reminded parties that NASA had previously committed to notify the Navajo Nation regarding memorial flights and that the Biden administration promised to consult on tribal concerns of this nature, as outlined [2] in the Memorandum on Tribal Consultation and Strengthening Nation-to-Nation Relationships on Jan. 26, 2021. "This memorandum reinforced the commitment to Executive Order 13175 of November 6, 2000," Nygren explained. "Additionally, the Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Interagency Coordination and Collaboration for the Protection of Indigenous Sacred Sites, which you and several other members of the Administration signed in November 2021, further underscores the requirement for such consultation." It might be an interesting route people attempt to block some uses on religious, broadly ethic-aesthetic, grounds. Seems like a long battle, I wonder what political angle will side with, and use / empower the argument. [1]: https://www.space.com/moon-navajo-nation-objection-human-remains-ula-vulcan-centaur-celestis-elysium-space https://www.space.com/moon-navajo-nation-objection-human-rem... [2]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/26/memorandum-on-tribal-consultation-and-strengthening-nation-to-nation-relationships/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-action...
rngname22 3y ago
It's a matter of taste and an offense to nature. Would you like it if a cryopreserved embalmed 10 foot tall pile of human feces was permanently enshrined atop Everest or on a buoy at the mouth of the Amazon river? If you felt any revulsion or disgust at the idea, that's probably the way the felt at the idea of the relatively untouched 'nature' of the moon beginning to be used as a novelty landfill/dump for rich people to stow their trash (or important human remains).
- blibble 3y ago
  everest trail is notorious for being full of dead bodies and trash
  - rngname22 3y ago
    I'm aware, and I think that climbing it should be banned.
- nh23423fefe 3y ago
  but every animal that lives in the amazon shits in it? whats so bad about human shit. its just acid washed organic matter. what point are you making? if you acknowledge its only a matter of taste, then who cares about navajo tastes? especially when the taste is wrong. the moon isn't sacred.
  - rngname22 3y ago
    The parent asked why they cared, I'm not making an argument I'm answering the question. My answer is that it's distasteful to them and their belief system / worldview. I happen to share the same distaste, though not on any religious grounds. Who cares about Navajo tastes? Presumably other people who agree with them and would support a ban on vanity projects on the moon or who find it distasteful, like myself.

by yesco 3y ago

giraffe_lady 3y ago

It is almost always safe to assume no one is setting out to deliberately hurt their own credibility.

yesco 3y ago
Obviously I didn't mean that literally

lolc 3y ago

While I know nothing of the Navajo, the moon and the sun are revered by many people. They are literally seen as gods by some religions. I have no trouble believing that they see this as desecration without having to actually delve into their beliefs. But yea, would be interesting to know what it is to them. There are many obstacles to living on the moon, but I don't think their belief will bar us from burying people there. Like other religions, believers will have to disconnect their god from the physical moon body.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

emtrw 3y ago

[flagged]

falseprofit 3y ago
I can’t see how keeping human remains off of the moon is about to spread AIDS, so at least for now this seems to be an unfair comparison. Can you see the dash of magical thinking present in the desire to put those remains on the moon in the first place?

mcint 3y ago

Paraphrasing from the article, shortened again, placing human remains and other things could be perceived as discards, is tantamount to desecration. In response, the President of the Navajo Nation, Buu Nygren, has filed a formal objection with NASA and the U.S. Department of Transportation over what he calls an act of desecration. "It is crucial to emphasize that the moon holds a sacred position in many Indigenous cultures, including ours," Nygren wrote in a letter dated Dec. 21. *"The act of depositing human remains and other materials, which could be perceived as discards in any other location, on the moon is tantamount to desecration of this sacred space."* It seems like human remains can get news attention, and their objection lies more with other aspects--if I were pressed to guess, against commercial use of space. This article is about the NASA response, and links to an earlier article [1] about the complaint According to Nygren, this has been an ongoing concern that "echoes back to the late 1990s, when the National Aeronautics and Space Administration sent the Lunar Prospector, carrying the remains of [geologist] Eugene Shoemaker, to the moon. At the time, Navajo Nation President Albert Hale voiced our objections regarding this action. In response, NASA issued a formal apology and promised consultation with tribes before authorizing further missions carrying human remains to the moon." and Nygren reminded parties that NASA had previously committed to notify the Navajo Nation regarding memorial flights and that the Biden administration promised to consult on tribal concerns of this nature, as outlined [2] in the Memorandum on Tribal Consultation and Strengthening Nation-to-Nation Relationships on Jan. 26, 2021. "This memorandum reinforced the commitment to Executive Order 13175 of November 6, 2000," Nygren explained. "Additionally, the Memorandum of Understanding Regarding Interagency Coordination and Collaboration for the Protection of Indigenous Sacred Sites, which you and several other members of the Administration signed in November 2021, further underscores the requirement for such consultation." It might be an interesting route people attempt to block some uses on religious, broadly ethic-aesthetic, grounds. Seems like a long battle, I wonder what political angle will side with, and use / empower the argument. [1]: https://www.space.com/moon-navajo-nation-objection-human-remains-ula-vulcan-centaur-celestis-elysium-space https://www.space.com/moon-navajo-nation-objection-human-rem... [2]: https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/26/memorandum-on-tribal-consultation-and-strengthening-nation-to-nation-relationships/ https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-action...

rngname22 3y ago

It's a matter of taste and an offense to nature. Would you like it if a cryopreserved embalmed 10 foot tall pile of human feces was permanently enshrined atop Everest or on a buoy at the mouth of the Amazon river? If you felt any revulsion or disgust at the idea, that's probably the way the felt at the idea of the relatively untouched 'nature' of the moon beginning to be used as a novelty landfill/dump for rich people to stow their trash (or important human remains).

blibble 3y ago
everest trail is notorious for being full of dead bodies and trash
- rngname22 3y ago
  I'm aware, and I think that climbing it should be banned.
nh23423fefe 3y ago
but every animal that lives in the amazon shits in it? whats so bad about human shit. its just acid washed organic matter. what point are you making? if you acknowledge its only a matter of taste, then who cares about navajo tastes? especially when the taste is wrong. the moon isn't sacred.
- rngname22 3y ago
  The parent asked why they cared, I'm not making an argument I'm answering the question. My answer is that it's distasteful to them and their belief system / worldview. I happen to share the same distaste, though not on any religious grounds. Who cares about Navajo tastes? Presumably other people who agree with them and would support a ban on vanity projects on the moon or who find it distasteful, like myself.