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Ask HN: What to do with text from old, unarchived, online forums?
I have a stack of printouts of various discussion forums from between 1991-4. Mostly chatter, but several interview transcriptions, news reports, and magazine articles that no longer appear to be online.
They vary from Billboard charts, to Associated Press reports on Michael Jackson's wealth, and Debbie Gibson discussion groups!
Are they useful/interesting as pieces of Internet history?
Are the copyright/privacy issues too onerous to scan/publish?
Do I simply send a box of paper to archive.org to worry about?
- billpg 3y agoDid we have web forums back then? I know Usenet was a thing.
- PaulHoule 3y agoI remember printing out USENET posts on fan-fold perforated paper that had green and white stipes circa 1990. I think I got rid of all of them when I moved to Germany in 1999 and really pared down my possessions.
- ghaff 3y agoI should really look and see if I have anything interesting on my floppies that never made it to my hard disks. Unfortunately I think I have very little left from BBS forums. I definitely lost some things in hard disk crashes over the years with incomplete backups.
- serf 3y agoin various forms, sure. the well has been around since the mid 80s. It was a bbs and then a few other weird things until it became a 'somewhat standard' web forum in the mid 90s -- but if I remember right when it transitioned from BBS there was an effort to move the conversations over to the web forum. delphi forums too, which similar to the well has been through a few incarnations.
- anticorporate 3y agoI have a few copy/paste text files from AOL forums from the 90s, of which sadly the other 99.99% was lost unless AOL (or the clients to whom they subcontracted maintenance of forums at individual keywords) still has them on a tape drive somewhere.
- edm0nd 3y agoAOL has changed hands so many times since then. I highly doubt they have copies of much. I grew up on AOL 2.5 and the hacking/warez scene there. So many good times with 1IM punters, cchats, scrolling, and phishing OH and INT accounts.
- Forgeties79 3y agoI would assume so! I remember playing on Battle.net with StarCraft back in 97 and that had messaging integrated it. It basically had its own little IRC going. 25 friend limit!
- mindcrime 3y ago"Web" in the strict sense? Not really, as the "World Wide Web" wasn't invented until ~1990, and the protocol and software weren't made public until 1993[1]. So there weren't a lot of HTTP/HTML based "web" sites between 1991-1994, and probably even fewer "forum" type sites. BUT... in a more colloquial sense of how "web" might be used retrospectively, as sort of a loose synonym for "online", then absolutely. Going back well into the 1980's, and then into the 1990's, we had all sorts of online services, including discussion forums. There were the big services like Compuserve, The Well, AOL, Delphi, GEnie, Prodigy, etc. And then there were individual small dial-up BBS's[2] by the bushel-load. At their peak there were many thousands of them in the US alone. There were entire magazines printed and distributed that were effectively nothing but lists of dial-up numbers for BBS's, and magazines like Computer Shopper had big sections dedicated to listing those as well. And then there was, as you mention, Usenet. So yeah, even back in 1991, there were plenty of forums that might not have strictly been part of "the web", but that someone in contemporary times might casually describe as a "web forum". [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Wide_Web [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bulletin_board_system
- kdklol 3y ago>Do I simply send a box of paper to archive.org to worry about? That's what I would do, although I'd probably scan it for them, or at least would send an email first. Also, good on you for trying to preserve early internet history. You have my admiration.
- SushiHippie 3y agoMaybe this FAQ about physically donating stuff to the internet archive answers some questions for you https://help.archive.org/help/frequently-asked-questions/ https://help.archive.org/help/frequently-asked-questions/
- zxexz 3y agoIt would be really cool if this became a trend. I'm sure tons of people have printouts from back then.
- DoubleDerper 3y agoYou can scan and OCR (adobe) this yourself with not much more effort than boxing and shipping at FedEx Then repost on related public-facing online forums or a free wordpress site or upload to archive.org
- ksec 3y agoI get this answer a lot when I ask similar question but how do we scan it? Taking a Photos of every print out from our Phone? That is 1000s of photos each needing to snap and focus. Not everyone has a scanner, and not every scanner has automated tray feed. And even if they do the quality of their scan are really low by default. I have similar question with Business Cards as well. I have hundreds if not thousands of them. But with no way to automatically archive them.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoI use https://1dollarscan.com/ https://1dollarscan.com/ if I don't need the physical items back, and use https://www.scancafe.com/ https://www.scancafe.com/ if I do. Those digital files then get ingested into my workflow. (no affiliation, just a customer)
- ghaff 3y agoI’ve used scancafe a number of times and actually wrote an early-on review for CNET. One general piece of advice is that before you go crazy, think about what you really care about saving. There’s a cost to scanning of course. There’s also a cost to metadata and other cataloging so that you can actually find what you’ve scanned. For photos everything is in Lightroom with at least a modicum of organization. When my dad decided he’d like a digital picture frame of older family pics it literally took me about 30 minutes to pull together.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoThis is a good point. For my use cases, I get a bulk rate, and dump everything into digital storage and a processing workflow. Once digital, it's a future problem, but at least it'll be preserved on disk and tape somewhere. Apple didn't have machine vision in photos when I started doing this, for example, so I lean heavily on Moore's Law (very broadly speaking about tech acceleration) that future tech will solve (facial recognition, OCR, machine vision metadata generation, generative AI) so save, digitize, preserve now when it is cheap to do so. Once gone, it is lost to the sands of time.
- yreg 3y agoA question from someone a bit younger: What was the purpose of printing out online discussions? Was it to read them while not at the computer? Was it to physically archive them?
- StephenSmith 3y agoIt took time to access the information. You had to turn on your modem and connect to the internet (took a while). Then you had to load up the information (took a while). Then there was the lack of good search engines, so you were worried you'd never find the information again. And most importantly, you couldn't pull up this information while out and about (there was no 3g/4g/5g).
- yreg 3y agoOk, but why print it out instead of saving it locally? (Other than to read it on the go? Did people do that?)
- gumballindie 3y agoA quick google search reveals that laptops and smartphones didnt exist back then.
- yreg 3y agoWhat does that have to do with anything? Disk drives did exist.
- mindcrime 3y ago> Disk drives did exist. They did, but FWIW, they were very small and fairly expensive compared to contemporary times. The attitude towards using disk space was a bit different back then, because it was a much scarcer and more valuable resource.
- 3y ago
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- catchnear4321 3y agowe got ourselves a stringer for the cic. well, not quite. soon. models gotta feed.
- kolinko 3y agoDefinitely, Archive.org is the best bet.
- toomuchtodo 3y agoHey there, I do some work with the Archive folks as an ad hoc physical archive volunteer. I'll pay for you to ship them and facilitate getting them ingested into items and a collection if you'd like. Let me know how to get in touch. Once scanned, derive operations will take care of OCR and generating relevant metadata from the artifacts. If there are any issues (copyright, etc) preventing these items from being public, they'll be made private by patron services. (no affiliation with the Archive, just a volunteer)
- skymast 3y agoDo you take MYSQL backups of complete BBS sites?
- deleted 3y ago[deleted]
- toomuchtodo 3y agohttps://help.archive.org/help/how-to-upload-files-to-create-a-new-item-page/ https://help.archive.org/help/how-to-upload-files-to-create-... https://github.com/jjjake/internetarchive https://github.com/jjjake/internetarchive might be helpful If you have an artifact in digital format already, you can self serve and don't need my help. Patron services at the org can provide guidance if you are unsure of item value, upload mechanics, collections, metadata, etc.
- 93po 3y agoI ran a website where people uploaded game save files along with an screenshot of their game world for a few years. It had maybe 10k+ submissions and was a mildly popular game. I took it offline years ago though. Is this something worth archiving?
- grayhatter 3y ago100% yes!
- 3y ago
- countWSS 3y agoJust select the most significant stuff and digitize it yourself.
- bravura 3y agoA friend of mine, technical but not a hacker, wanted to turn an old offline forum into a chatbot. I know there are many not so good RAGs to do this. What are the current best practices, as of this month?
- alnwlsn 3y agoPaging Jason Scott, @textfiles
- textfiles 3y agoHi.
- dobin 3y agoRelated, I have a lot of IRC logs form 1997-2004. Is there somehow an IRC archive project?
- aspenmayer 3y agoJason has posted elsewhere in this post, but textfiles.com is a safe bet for a future home for nearly any kind of log of that sort.
- j45 3y agoIt would be likely easiest to have it digitized first. Either use an all in one printer or scanner with an automatic document feeder, or send that box to a service to scan. Once digitized there are a lot more places interested in it
- textfiles 3y agoHappy to take them.
- textfiles 3y agoThis is Jason Scott of the Internet Archive, by the way. (jscott@archive.org). Knowing how HackerNews is, I am sure this comment will end up buried far beneath the thread.
- stevengoodwin 3y agoIt has - but I conscientiously recheck my threads for new insight! :) Will email you when I know everything that I have!
- alalbertson 3y agoI'd be kicking myself if I did not go out of my way to thank you for your service.
- xyzzy_plugh 3y agoJason Scott is an international treasure. While the Internet Archive is many people, Jason goes above and beyond. He won't ask but I will: please consider donating directly to Jason: > Venmo is @textfiles and jason@textfiles.com is Paypal
- samstave 3y agoGive me Debbie Gibson and anyone in 14-year-old orbit of me doesnt get hurt.
- zilti 3y agoThank you for what you do!
- japanman185 3y ago[dead]
- sdsd 3y agoI really enjoy finding old imageboards that have been abandoned for years, sometimes decades. A lot of them are on waybackmachine, but finding out about them is often the hard part. I created a chan discussion board on my own imageboard (http://13channel.crabdance.com/chan/index.html http://13channel.crabdance.com/chan/index.html) to research this kind of stuff - but only for chans specifically.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoIts a shame, Google used to host Usenet groups and the other day I clicked a link of something old that Google was supposed to be hosting, and got literally nothing back. Dear Google, you could have added ads to those old results to justify keeping them up, but you failed because you're more interested in locking things down than actually building up an open web. Now there's decades worth of old usenet content probably gone, my understanding is a lot of it was donated by old usenet providers that shut down or just couldnt keep hosting really old but historic texts for whatever reason.
- 6510 3y agoThe added irony is that the oldest threads are the most interesting.
- giancarlostoro 3y agoYeah they really are. I would have paid Google $3 a month just for them to keep them online on the odd chance I want to read them. Shit Google, make a usenet service for me to subscribe to, it'll be the only thing you'll have with me giving you money.
- chislobog 3y agoProbably not the right place for this but consider what happened to the truecrypt forums. Two custodian copies online is a good thing.
- NoZebra120vClip 3y agoI sort of regard these commenters as crazy. I never had the habit of printing stuff off so I could read it later. I read it online, or not at all. And by "online" I mean from computer storage on the screen, not necessarily over a modem connection or something. The fundamental disconnect you guys have is this: in order to print something out, it needs to be stored somewhere first. So you indeed downloaded a text file in order to print it. Surely you saved it somewhere, at least in RAM if not permanent storage. Otherwise the printout wouldn't happen. The sorts of things that I used the printer for were school reports and papers, and especially Print Shop style banners. It was really fun to run off a larger-than-life "HAPPY BIRTHDAY" sign that was basically professional DTP style with good fonts, graphics and the whole bit. At school the chief use of the Line Printers was for large-format ASCII art. We'd take some GIFS of rather prurient pin-up shots, or anime or just some interesting subject, and run it through an ASCII art generator, then print out something suitable for covering an entire wall. Sometimes we'd even print out the Pascal code we were working on, so we could mark it up and sort of edit it offline. But that was the exception to prove the rule.
- obmelvin 3y agoGiven the years (91-94), it seems likely these were printed out a long time ago and have sat in filing boxes for nearly 30 years. Looking back it may seem crazy to print so many things out, but screen quality and norms have changed a lot since then! To this day, many academics still print tons of papers out to read. I'm sure there are other niches where it is still considered normal to print - even though sure, you could argue that an iPad Pro + Pencil is advantageous if for no other reason than physical space. edit: Could've made my point a bit better. I get where you are coming from. I just mean that at the time, I think more people would find it crazy to stock pile CDs with text files vs printouts