3 ms·

I dunno; it'd be a bit weird if unions result in these people getting better off. Pretty high risk of the story ending with "Designed in California. Assembled i

by roenxi 3y ago

I dunno; it'd be a bit weird if unions result in these people getting better off. Pretty high risk of the story ending with "Designed in California. Assembled in China". Not that that is a terrible outcome, the Asians have basically built a civilisation's worth of wealth over the last 50 years. I'm not convinced that chasing the value-add out of the west helped workers though, they all seem kinda upset last time I looked at the polling. I'm just saying; there is a really high correlation with thriving wealthy industries - like software - and no union presence. We don't even have guilds. And when we do get wealthy guild-gatekept industries like medicine or law, the working conditions tend to be famously poor. My money is where my mouth is on this one. I don't think unions will make me better off. My strategy for getting wealthy involves standing as far away from them as I can get. Those things are toxic; the only tool they really have is "we all lose". And that isn't a tool that will get better results than a competitive labour market. It pushes wealth away. I want wealth to head towards me. Others should too. It can always get worse.

jacquesm 3y ago
You are welcome to your own opinion of course. But historically, and today as well unions have had a measurable effect on the improvement of the standard of life for the workers as well as an immense effect on workplace safety. If you want to ignore those advantages that's entirely your privilege, but note that that privilege was probably earned by a union in your (collective, not personal) past.
mattm 3y ago
> I'm just saying; there is a really high correlation with thriving wealthy industries - like software - and no union presence Correlation does not mean causation. Software is high paying because of scalability. It's not like past production or service work where the amount you can produce/serve has physical limitations. Let's not fool ourselves. It would get worse if employers could figure out how to turn software into a more repeatable process and not have to rely on the craft of the individual. When that day comes the amount paid to software will go down and there won't be anything you as an individual can do to stop it.
- roenxi 3y ago
  But if your argument is high pay is caused by scalability, then surely you'd agree that a union would be unhelpful? A union doesn't help make someone's production more scaleable.

by roenxi 3y ago

jacquesm 3y ago

You are welcome to your own opinion of course. But historically, and today as well unions have had a measurable effect on the improvement of the standard of life for the workers as well as an immense effect on workplace safety. If you want to ignore those advantages that's entirely your privilege, but note that that privilege was probably earned by a union in your (collective, not personal) past.

mattm 3y ago

> I'm just saying; there is a really high correlation with thriving wealthy industries - like software - and no union presence Correlation does not mean causation. Software is high paying because of scalability. It's not like past production or service work where the amount you can produce/serve has physical limitations. Let's not fool ourselves. It would get worse if employers could figure out how to turn software into a more repeatable process and not have to rely on the craft of the individual. When that day comes the amount paid to software will go down and there won't be anything you as an individual can do to stop it.

roenxi 3y ago
But if your argument is high pay is caused by scalability, then surely you'd agree that a union would be unhelpful? A union doesn't help make someone's production more scaleable.