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> "This family has two mommies. They love each other so proudly and they all go marching in... the... big parade," sing the lyrics. Other terms featured include

> "This family has two mommies. They love each other so proudly and they all go marching in... the... big parade," sing the lyrics. Other terms featured include "trans," "non-binary" and "queer." > “Love is love is love you see, and everyone should love proudly,” Acknowledging LGBTQ people are capable of love is somehow an example of “culture war”. It’s incredible people can be so bothered by a simple, sweet message.

The_Colonel 3y ago
Bluey is targeted towards pre-school children. I'm not really bothered if my 4-year-old daughter sees stuff like this, it's just that she won't really understand things like "non-binary". It seems like a topic more appropriate for older children - maybe from age 8 or later?
- deleted 3y ago
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- deleted 3y ago
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- Doxin 3y ago
  She might not understand it yet, but there's value in exposing young children to concepts you'd like them to understand later.
- throwaway87651 3y ago
  My 5-year-old understands that her older sibling is non-binary, so perhaps it is an appropriate topic even at this young age.
- lukeck 3y ago
  At my kids’ childcare, by far the most popular educator is non-binary. They do a great job of listening to the kids, and talking to them without talking down to them. Come to think of it, the way they interact with the kids actually reminds me a fair bit of the parents in Bluey. Both my kids (3 and 5 but now at school) have said stuff like “Today we did x with Greg. He’s not exactly a boy and not exactly a girl.” Then they get on with their day. To them, it’s just another person that’s a bit different to them.
  - The_Colonel 3y ago
    I guess this is more common in US then. I live in a pretty liberal European city, yet I haven't met any non-binary person. I know exactly one trans person, and only remotely (she lives in US). I guess to me, this topic seems "advanced", perhaps "irrelevant" in a way for such a small kid. There are many other things she needs to learn about, which she will commonly experience in the real world.
    - dukeyukey 3y ago
      I'm in London, and I've met a few non-binary people (enbys), and had at least two trans people in my school (one student, one teaching assistant; this was in the mid-2000s).
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
    - michaelt 3y ago
      > I live in a pretty liberal European city, yet I haven't met any non-binary person. Being nonbinary is kinda unusual, but it's also probably something that's super easy to be closeted about, if you don't know how people will react. I mean in the 1980s I thought all 900 kids in my high school were straight, and that being gay was super uncommon.
      - mixmastamyk 3y ago
        80s in California... there was a sizable but not exactly large group. No one cared. We all knew "old people" were supposed to care, but it was more likely just a thing everyone had to pretend to care about on TV. None of the old people I knew cared either. Future "not evenly distributed" and all that.
    - johnnyanmac 3y ago
      Depends on the circle. Tech industry in California, know 2 NBs, and 2 trans people (and then 2 more I knew transitioned after I left work and contact with them). I guess that does fit all the liberal stereotypes that people like to throw at my State.
- berrel 3y ago
  [flagged]
  - jncfhnb 3y ago
    Meanwhile, other people get angry when such people’s mere existence is revealed to children!
    - deleted 3y ago
      [deleted]
  - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
    > Some people believe that whether you're a woman or a man is a thought in your head, and they also believe that these thoughts mean you can be neither, which they call 'non-binary'. It's helpful to respect these people's beliefs and act as if they are true, because they can get very angry and vindictive if you don't agree with them. And then we ask why some kids wind up entrenched away from economic opportunity… Like, if your only coping mechanisms for beliefs you disagree with—particularly about someone else’s private affairs—rise out of fear of retribution, you shouldn’t be in a decision-making role of any kind. It’s somewhat sad to see that baked into a kid from the get go, but maybe they’ll get over it without winding up resentful for the handicap.
    - berrel 3y ago
      The point is it's not a private affair. Retribution from people who react harmfully when others do not share their beliefs is a real thing, ask anyone who was brought up in a strict religious environment who became a non-believer. Sometimes the easiest path is minimal appeasement to avoid conflict where you'll end up worse off.
      - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
        > it's not a private affair Someone's sexuality or gender identity sure is. Given languages' pronouns evolve (e.g. a universal "you" in place of the informal "thou", or the aborted deprecation of "y'all"), that's not a reasonable hang-up. > the easiest path is minimal appeasement to avoid conflict where you'll end up worse off Sure, and instinctive conflict avoidance is a valid life strategy. It's just bad build for a decision maker. Someone conditioned in that behaviour is going into life with opportunities cordoned off.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
- yummypaint 3y ago
  Kids have no trouble understanding these things. It's the stunted adults who create problems.
polotics 3y ago
The one thing that could be noted on this point of seeing a toddler-focussed TV show with an LGBTQ acceptance theme, is that there are a lot of other acceptance-worthy themes out there that never make it into toddlers' TV shows. I will not make a list because obviously that would be whataboutism, virtue signalling, I don't know.
berrel 3y ago
[flagged]
- karmajunkie 3y ago
  that’s an interesting way of justifying homophobia and transphobia.
  - berrel 3y ago
    Is it? How did you come to that conclusion?
    - karmajunkie 3y ago
      Because you cloaked it in false concern about misogyny by redefining misogyny. Really, well done, I feel certain that it fooled about 4 people on HN.
      - berrel 3y ago
        I did not redefine misogyny. If I'd written a comment about the racism inherent in 'blackface' performance regarding its mockery of black people, would you claim I was redefining racism?
        karmajunkie 3y ago
        Yes, you did. Both blackface and drag performance have particular histories you're intentionally and erroneously conflating. The former is racist in its origin. The latter is not misogynistic in either its origin or contemporaneous performance.
        berrel 3y ago
        Drag is men dressing up as caricatures of women. They wear costumes intended to represent women and mimic female bodies, adopt a 'woman' persona under a feminised and often heavily sexualised name, and act out every demeaning, offensive stereotype of women for laughs, often leaning heavily on mocking women's bodies and the physical experiences exclusive to women: pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, menstruation, and sometimes even abortion. Then they take off those costumes and get to go about their lives as men when they aren't doing this, without having to live under those same stereotypes they helped perpetuate for fun or money. Meanwhile, women are expected to laugh, clap along and celebrate this insult. This mockery of women isn't exactly subtle. So, please explain the reasoning behind your belief that drag is not misogynistic.
karmajunkie 3y ago
yes, acceptance of others is an overly political message to those of a certain political persuasion. can’t have kids running around thinking whatever they grow into might be ok if it doesn’t comport with mommy and daddy’s worldview.
- slibhb 3y ago
  It goes both ways. Maybe you'll teach your kids to be open and tolerant to everything but they'll grow up, convert to Catholicism, and -- gasp -- vote conservative.
  - karmajunkie 3y ago
    Yes, i fully recognize that at least one of my children is likely to enjoy baseball and vote for a Republican at least once in their life, despite my best efforts to show them the light. I will love them anyway.
    - dgfitz 3y ago
      Aww, don’t make baseball political. C’mon.
      - karmajunkie 3y ago
        well, everything is political, but i wasn’t making it so. i just really hate baseball and have never encouraged my kids to play the sport because of that.
  - mindslight 3y ago
    Perhaps you mean 'vote reactionary', as the religious tend to do? Voting conservative means the Democratic party these days - general support of institutions, the United States's standing in the world, law and order, individual freedoms, fiscal responsibility. The contemporary Republican party has rejected these things, instead focusing on some imagined idyllic past and pushing for radical change towards it. The Democratic party certainly has its things it wants to change, but they're much more incremental and not the sweeping sea change of the current Republican agenda.

The_Colonel 3y ago

Bluey is targeted towards pre-school children. I'm not really bothered if my 4-year-old daughter sees stuff like this, it's just that she won't really understand things like "non-binary". It seems like a topic more appropriate for older children - maybe from age 8 or later?

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
Doxin 3y ago
She might not understand it yet, but there's value in exposing young children to concepts you'd like them to understand later.
throwaway87651 3y ago
My 5-year-old understands that her older sibling is non-binary, so perhaps it is an appropriate topic even at this young age.
lukeck 3y ago
At my kids’ childcare, by far the most popular educator is non-binary. They do a great job of listening to the kids, and talking to them without talking down to them. Come to think of it, the way they interact with the kids actually reminds me a fair bit of the parents in Bluey. Both my kids (3 and 5 but now at school) have said stuff like “Today we did x with Greg. He’s not exactly a boy and not exactly a girl.” Then they get on with their day. To them, it’s just another person that’s a bit different to them.
- The_Colonel 3y ago
  I guess this is more common in US then. I live in a pretty liberal European city, yet I haven't met any non-binary person. I know exactly one trans person, and only remotely (she lives in US). I guess to me, this topic seems "advanced", perhaps "irrelevant" in a way for such a small kid. There are many other things she needs to learn about, which she will commonly experience in the real world.
  - dukeyukey 3y ago
    I'm in London, and I've met a few non-binary people (enbys), and had at least two trans people in my school (one student, one teaching assistant; this was in the mid-2000s).
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
  - michaelt 3y ago
    > I live in a pretty liberal European city, yet I haven't met any non-binary person. Being nonbinary is kinda unusual, but it's also probably something that's super easy to be closeted about, if you don't know how people will react. I mean in the 1980s I thought all 900 kids in my high school were straight, and that being gay was super uncommon.
    - mixmastamyk 3y ago
      80s in California... there was a sizable but not exactly large group. No one cared. We all knew "old people" were supposed to care, but it was more likely just a thing everyone had to pretend to care about on TV. None of the old people I knew cared either. Future "not evenly distributed" and all that.
  - johnnyanmac 3y ago
    Depends on the circle. Tech industry in California, know 2 NBs, and 2 trans people (and then 2 more I knew transitioned after I left work and contact with them). I guess that does fit all the liberal stereotypes that people like to throw at my State.
berrel 3y ago
[flagged]
- jncfhnb 3y ago
  Meanwhile, other people get angry when such people’s mere existence is revealed to children!
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
- JumpCrisscross 3y ago
  > Some people believe that whether you're a woman or a man is a thought in your head, and they also believe that these thoughts mean you can be neither, which they call 'non-binary'. It's helpful to respect these people's beliefs and act as if they are true, because they can get very angry and vindictive if you don't agree with them. And then we ask why some kids wind up entrenched away from economic opportunity… Like, if your only coping mechanisms for beliefs you disagree with—particularly about someone else’s private affairs—rise out of fear of retribution, you shouldn’t be in a decision-making role of any kind. It’s somewhat sad to see that baked into a kid from the get go, but maybe they’ll get over it without winding up resentful for the handicap.
  - berrel 3y ago
    The point is it's not a private affair. Retribution from people who react harmfully when others do not share their beliefs is a real thing, ask anyone who was brought up in a strict religious environment who became a non-believer. Sometimes the easiest path is minimal appeasement to avoid conflict where you'll end up worse off.
    - JumpCrisscross 3y ago
      > it's not a private affair Someone's sexuality or gender identity sure is. Given languages' pronouns evolve (e.g. a universal "you" in place of the informal "thou", or the aborted deprecation of "y'all"), that's not a reasonable hang-up. > the easiest path is minimal appeasement to avoid conflict where you'll end up worse off Sure, and instinctive conflict avoidance is a valid life strategy. It's just bad build for a decision maker. Someone conditioned in that behaviour is going into life with opportunities cordoned off.
deleted 3y ago
[deleted]
yummypaint 3y ago
Kids have no trouble understanding these things. It's the stunted adults who create problems.

polotics 3y ago

The one thing that could be noted on this point of seeing a toddler-focussed TV show with an LGBTQ acceptance theme, is that there are a lot of other acceptance-worthy themes out there that never make it into toddlers' TV shows. I will not make a list because obviously that would be whataboutism, virtue signalling, I don't know.

berrel 3y ago

[flagged]

karmajunkie 3y ago
that’s an interesting way of justifying homophobia and transphobia.
- berrel 3y ago
  Is it? How did you come to that conclusion?
  - karmajunkie 3y ago
    Because you cloaked it in false concern about misogyny by redefining misogyny. Really, well done, I feel certain that it fooled about 4 people on HN.
    - berrel 3y ago
      I did not redefine misogyny. If I'd written a comment about the racism inherent in 'blackface' performance regarding its mockery of black people, would you claim I was redefining racism?
      - karmajunkie 3y ago
        Yes, you did. Both blackface and drag performance have particular histories you're intentionally and erroneously conflating. The former is racist in its origin. The latter is not misogynistic in either its origin or contemporaneous performance.
        berrel 3y ago
        Drag is men dressing up as caricatures of women. They wear costumes intended to represent women and mimic female bodies, adopt a 'woman' persona under a feminised and often heavily sexualised name, and act out every demeaning, offensive stereotype of women for laughs, often leaning heavily on mocking women's bodies and the physical experiences exclusive to women: pregnancy, birth, breastfeeding, menstruation, and sometimes even abortion. Then they take off those costumes and get to go about their lives as men when they aren't doing this, without having to live under those same stereotypes they helped perpetuate for fun or money. Meanwhile, women are expected to laugh, clap along and celebrate this insult. This mockery of women isn't exactly subtle. So, please explain the reasoning behind your belief that drag is not misogynistic.

karmajunkie 3y ago

yes, acceptance of others is an overly political message to those of a certain political persuasion. can’t have kids running around thinking whatever they grow into might be ok if it doesn’t comport with mommy and daddy’s worldview.

slibhb 3y ago
It goes both ways. Maybe you'll teach your kids to be open and tolerant to everything but they'll grow up, convert to Catholicism, and -- gasp -- vote conservative.
- karmajunkie 3y ago
  Yes, i fully recognize that at least one of my children is likely to enjoy baseball and vote for a Republican at least once in their life, despite my best efforts to show them the light. I will love them anyway.
  - dgfitz 3y ago
    Aww, don’t make baseball political. C’mon.
    - karmajunkie 3y ago
      well, everything is political, but i wasn’t making it so. i just really hate baseball and have never encouraged my kids to play the sport because of that.
- mindslight 3y ago
  Perhaps you mean 'vote reactionary', as the religious tend to do? Voting conservative means the Democratic party these days - general support of institutions, the United States's standing in the world, law and order, individual freedoms, fiscal responsibility. The contemporary Republican party has rejected these things, instead focusing on some imagined idyllic past and pushing for radical change towards it. The Democratic party certainly has its things it wants to change, but they're much more incremental and not the sweeping sea change of the current Republican agenda.