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> Doesn't seem as "open and shut" as The Register wants readers to believe. Looks pretty open and shut to me. Google employed a contractor to avoid the liabili

> Doesn't seem as "open and shut" as The Register wants readers to believe. Looks pretty open and shut to me. Google employed a contractor to avoid the liability of those employees unionizing. In doing so it misclassified them since it is normally work an employee would do-not a contractor under labor law. They were already caught doing this previously according to the register. > Also, employers refuse to negotiate with employees all the time - how would this be any different? Just because an employee (or group such as one represented by a union) doesn't have their demands met does not seem to automatically be "illegal". Once a union is recognized by the NLRB an employer is required by law to make a good faith effort to negotiate. This is what? 80-100 year old American law? https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-rights/employer-union-rights-and-obligations https://www.nlrb.gov/about-nlrb/rights-we-protect/your-right... > The employee's recourse, of course, is to leave/quit. Even if these contractors were classified as Google employees, Google can probably just say "no" to any demand anyway... That is part of why collective bargaining improves the economic situation of most Americans. Google says no, they go on strike, and Google then has to choose to eat the cost replace and retrain most of those people in this market (and hope they don't unionize) or meet the demands. Compare this to how Costco handled a unionization recently. https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/costco-employees-vote-unionize-company-response-remarkable.html https://www.inc.com/suzanne-lucas/costco-employees-vote-unio... Added: (and hope they don't unionize)

irjustin 3y ago
> Looks pretty open and shut to me. Also disagreed it's not simple open/shut. > Google employed a contractor to avoid the liability of those employees unionizing. In doing so it misclassified them since it is normally work an employee would do-not a contractor under labor law. They were already caught doing this previously according to the register. Everything hinges on this concept. That contractor work == employee work. The article states that one of the central arguments was around contractors who were training Bard. That those contractors should have been determined as employees even though they were hired through Accenture. Admittedly, I would stand with Google/Alphabet on this one. Data entry work, once initial training completed the vast majority will not be kept on. If there was a plan to convert a few contractors to FTE to remain on Bard then that would signal even more so (pure speculation). Currently, the argument is for Cognizant contractors but there's no details on the article that can help me understand what they're doing for Youtube that would show contractor-work == employee-work. Of course, google is smart, they'll fight these core points before even beginning to worry/engage with labor unions. There's really no point in worrying about the downstream stuff if the upstream hasn't been determined. [EDIT] I got some insight by glancing at the ruling by the NLRB[0] > All full-time and regular part-time Senior Process Executive-Data/Music Generalist (SPEs) and Project/Process Specialists/Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) employees employed by the Employers in YouTube Music Content Operations who are employed to work from the Employer’s (Cognizant Technology Solutions U.S. Corporation) facility at 717 E. Parmer Lane in Austin, Texas. They're all housed at a non-google facility, but those roles seem central to Youtube Music operations even if they are data-entry jobs. I can largely side with NRLB in this ruling. We'll have to see how google fights this one. A side note, Youtube HATES Youtube Music. I hate it. I use it because it's packaged with my Youtube premium and it's not worth holding Spotify + Youtube memberships. But WOW, Youtube Music's such an afterthought. Everything about the UX is terrible. [0] https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027
- bugglebeetle 3y ago
  The specifics of the case you’re speculating about and calling into question have all been documented, reviewed, and now ruled upon by the NLRB. It’s linked in the article: https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 What Google is doing now is appealing the ruling in federal court as an attempt to delay recognition of the union. Companies rarely win these appeals, but they use them as a stalling tactic in an attempt to demoralize and break up the union.
- judge2020 3y ago
  > Everything about the UX is terrible. Me and my family have no real problems with it. What's wrong with it? It does my manually-created playlists well, the different supermixes with different artists are accurate 99% of the time, and the "speed dial" on mobile is very useful.
  - irjustin 3y ago
    - There's no native OSX/Windows app, just an electron wrapper for the website - Desktop app can't download/offline - The list of songs that you're looking at isn't the true play list. There's a "hidden" list when you click on the empty space on the bottom bar. - Shuffle isn't a true shuffle simply reorders the "secondary/hidden list". So you can't turn shuffle on/off only "exit/reenter" to go from order to non-ordered. - Can't sort list on name/artist - Billboard doesn't seem to have an official list? It's like a bunch of weird lists or sometimes one whole "song" that contains the top billboard. I follow a random dude who maintains a close-enough list to a billboard one i care about. Things I miss from Spotify: - Seamless control of the "other player". i.e. my phone can control the one that's running on the TV and taps into the main sound system. - Radios are a lot stronger. They have a chance to introduce me to new music. - opposite of everything above? Not sure about speed dial. it's not on my desktop version, but i can't tell if that's a device or a/b or rollout difference.
    - judge2020 3y ago
      > - There's no native OSX/Windows app, just an electron wrapper for the website Do you mean the prompt on the browser to install the PWA? That's technically not Electron, but I get what you mean.

irjustin 3y ago

> Looks pretty open and shut to me. Also disagreed it's not simple open/shut. > Google employed a contractor to avoid the liability of those employees unionizing. In doing so it misclassified them since it is normally work an employee would do-not a contractor under labor law. They were already caught doing this previously according to the register. Everything hinges on this concept. That contractor work == employee work. The article states that one of the central arguments was around contractors who were training Bard. That those contractors should have been determined as employees even though they were hired through Accenture. Admittedly, I would stand with Google/Alphabet on this one. Data entry work, once initial training completed the vast majority will not be kept on. If there was a plan to convert a few contractors to FTE to remain on Bard then that would signal even more so (pure speculation). Currently, the argument is for Cognizant contractors but there's no details on the article that can help me understand what they're doing for Youtube that would show contractor-work == employee-work. Of course, google is smart, they'll fight these core points before even beginning to worry/engage with labor unions. There's really no point in worrying about the downstream stuff if the upstream hasn't been determined. [EDIT] I got some insight by glancing at the ruling by the NLRB[0] > All full-time and regular part-time Senior Process Executive-Data/Music Generalist (SPEs) and Project/Process Specialists/Subject Matter Experts (SMEs) employees employed by the Employers in YouTube Music Content Operations who are employed to work from the Employer’s (Cognizant Technology Solutions U.S. Corporation) facility at 717 E. Parmer Lane in Austin, Texas. They're all housed at a non-google facility, but those roles seem central to Youtube Music operations even if they are data-entry jobs. I can largely side with NRLB in this ruling. We'll have to see how google fights this one. A side note, Youtube HATES Youtube Music. I hate it. I use it because it's packaged with my Youtube premium and it's not worth holding Spotify + Youtube memberships. But WOW, Youtube Music's such an afterthought. Everything about the UX is terrible. [0] https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027

bugglebeetle 3y ago
The specifics of the case you’re speculating about and calling into question have all been documented, reviewed, and now ruled upon by the NLRB. It’s linked in the article: https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 https://www.nlrb.gov/case/16-CA-326027 What Google is doing now is appealing the ruling in federal court as an attempt to delay recognition of the union. Companies rarely win these appeals, but they use them as a stalling tactic in an attempt to demoralize and break up the union.
judge2020 3y ago
> Everything about the UX is terrible. Me and my family have no real problems with it. What's wrong with it? It does my manually-created playlists well, the different supermixes with different artists are accurate 99% of the time, and the "speed dial" on mobile is very useful.
- irjustin 3y ago
  - There's no native OSX/Windows app, just an electron wrapper for the website - Desktop app can't download/offline - The list of songs that you're looking at isn't the true play list. There's a "hidden" list when you click on the empty space on the bottom bar. - Shuffle isn't a true shuffle simply reorders the "secondary/hidden list". So you can't turn shuffle on/off only "exit/reenter" to go from order to non-ordered. - Can't sort list on name/artist - Billboard doesn't seem to have an official list? It's like a bunch of weird lists or sometimes one whole "song" that contains the top billboard. I follow a random dude who maintains a close-enough list to a billboard one i care about. Things I miss from Spotify: - Seamless control of the "other player". i.e. my phone can control the one that's running on the TV and taps into the main sound system. - Radios are a lot stronger. They have a chance to introduce me to new music. - opposite of everything above? Not sure about speed dial. it's not on my desktop version, but i can't tell if that's a device or a/b or rollout difference.
  - judge2020 3y ago
    > - There's no native OSX/Windows app, just an electron wrapper for the website Do you mean the prompt on the browser to install the PWA? That's technically not Electron, but I get what you mean.