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> It took me an afternoon hanging out with my electrician cousin and about $400 in parts from Amazon to build our own at-home electric refuelling station. This

> It took me an afternoon hanging out with my electrician cousin and about $400 in parts from Amazon to build our own at-home electric refuelling station. This is a big reason I haven't even considered an EV. How I'd find someone to do this work on my garage, and how much it would cost is a huge unknown, and that's just enough friction to simply not consider getting an EV. My vehicles are first and foremost utilitarian; I use them to get from A to B. EVs make that simple equation "complicated", and I have other issues maintaining a household that demand my attention.

_yb2s 3y ago
I suppose it depends on the length of your commute and what vehicle, but I’ve found that a standard Level 1 charger plugged into a regular outlet, if plugged in all of the time, was more than enough for daily EV commuting. Slow charging is also better for the battery. A lot of people likely don’t need a high powered charger install.
- jewayne 3y ago
  > Slow charging is also better for the battery. My understanding is that this is largely a myth, at least with modern BEVs with intercooled battery packs. My understanding is that modern battery packs can Level 2 charge with no additional degradation, because they don't get any hotter than during a Level 1 charge. Level 3 charging is different, but even then, the degradation in battery life isn't as much as you think -- I've heard numbers as low as just 3% faster degradation.
  - _yb2s 3y ago
    That makes sense, my experience is with a first gen VW e-golf which just has plain batteries- no cooling. I actually do that with my phone- I use a fast charger with a peltier cooler, that can rapidly charge the phone while keeping it cold. Family/friends think I'm crazy for caring about it, lol
AtlasBarfed 3y ago
Charging at home is difficult compared to driving to a gas station? This is all moot. Sodium ion and lfp and newer battery techs will increase range and drop the initial purchase price of EVs under what an ICE can compete with Some snap in time clickbait article won't change the technological tsunami. Even if the US drags it's feet, the rest of the world will eagerly adopt them. EVs promise energy independent and cheap transport combined with wind / solar. Every automaker knows this to differing levels of organizational denial, but they all feel it coming.
- hollandheese 3y ago
  >Charging at home is difficult compared to driving to a gas station? It absolutely could be. Ever lived in an apartment?
- tekknik 3y ago
  You realize this isn’t the first EV hype cycle yes? They’ve been tried before and as the article states the early adopter market is saturated worldwide. There are some very real problems that can’t be solved by battery tech, and only by removing the battery and switching to an alternative fuel source. The only reason EVs are succeeding now given all their shortcomings is because we’re being forced into them. Remove that force and I don’t see EVs seeing mass adoption.
  - AtlasBarfed 3y ago
    Oh there were 400 mile cars cheaper than ice cars before? Look Tesla can already build EVs at price parity with ices, they are currently sitting here n their profit margin. This isn't a hype cycle, Chinese EV makers and battery suppliers have 200+ wh/kg lfp and 150 wh/kg sodium ion in mass production scaling. This isn't a hype cycle, there are entire car companies in mass production with equal to ice costs now, and the cheaper than ice can ever be is in production scaling. Yes it won't be over night, but if you are doing production planning, financing, stock prediction and other 5-10 year planning, the writing now on the wall. This is without solid state and sulfur techs. Im only talking about the CATL LFP and sodium ion techs. Those alone will beat ices on cost at initial purchase, to say nothing of cheaper permile "fuel" and maintenance costs. And keep me n me and wind / solar is STILL dropping in cost, under what any old school power generation method has been. EV costs will only drop. " Very real problems" Please name one
justsomeoldguy 3y ago
it depends on how much charging you want. all EV's can charge off of a slower 115vac 15amp circuit. At my last place I had a dedicated 40amp 230vac socket much like you'd have installed for a big electric heater in a garage or a pool heater or a dryer. Good recharge times which I actually have only needed once in my life. At my current place I'm just using an extension cord to my outdoor outlet and I give it the 1500 watt option. You can even cut that in half if you don't want the "my this cord is warm.." effect. In the end, the slower charge is the better charge, so my laziness has been winning. I don't see installing a 230vac socket any time soon given how well it's been working. I've got an older phev that originally only got 14 miles of pure electric @ up to 79 mph, it's battery is down to about 9 miles expected. And that isn't a lot, but it is enough for 90% of my trips around town. Where you REALLY see this working well is if you have to go out every day to pick something or someone up locally. The amount of fuel burned on warmup cycles and local trips is not insubstantial. The gas tank needle just LOVES to move with every small trip otherwise. I sometimes go months without buying gas using that tiny miniscule range.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  the question I can never find anyone answering is pretty straightforward. is it cheaper paying the electricity for charging? I can't imagine it is, but while everyone talks about things like only having to gas up once every 4 months now, it's not as if the electricity comes for free.
  - michael1999 3y ago
    There are several people in this thread explaining it is about 10x cheaper. A base Tesla 3 is 70kWh * 5¢/kWh (my Toronto overnight rate) is ~$3.50 CAD for ~400km range. Gas in my Volvo C30 would be 400km * 8l/100km * $1/l = $32 CAD. If you drive every day, a plugin-electric can save you a LOT of money. And that's before the savings in oil, brakes, and other maintenance. I'm stuck with street parking, so it is much less appealing to me.
    - tekknik 3y ago
insane_dreamer 3y ago
> How I'd find someone to do this work on my garage, and how much it would cost is a huge unknown, and that's just enough friction to simply not consider getting an EV. Car dealerships will sell the hookups and have connections with local companies who will install for you. No effort required on your part .
turtlebits 3y ago
Plug it into any AC outlet. I gain around 50 miles overnight, which is plenty for my commute/errands.
iAMkenough 3y ago
If you own a home, you should learn how to locate local trade workers you can trust. You're going to need an electrician eventually, might as well find one before an emergency.

_yb2s 3y ago

I suppose it depends on the length of your commute and what vehicle, but I’ve found that a standard Level 1 charger plugged into a regular outlet, if plugged in all of the time, was more than enough for daily EV commuting. Slow charging is also better for the battery. A lot of people likely don’t need a high powered charger install.

jewayne 3y ago
> Slow charging is also better for the battery. My understanding is that this is largely a myth, at least with modern BEVs with intercooled battery packs. My understanding is that modern battery packs can Level 2 charge with no additional degradation, because they don't get any hotter than during a Level 1 charge. Level 3 charging is different, but even then, the degradation in battery life isn't as much as you think -- I've heard numbers as low as just 3% faster degradation.
- _yb2s 3y ago
  That makes sense, my experience is with a first gen VW e-golf which just has plain batteries- no cooling. I actually do that with my phone- I use a fast charger with a peltier cooler, that can rapidly charge the phone while keeping it cold. Family/friends think I'm crazy for caring about it, lol

AtlasBarfed 3y ago

Charging at home is difficult compared to driving to a gas station? This is all moot. Sodium ion and lfp and newer battery techs will increase range and drop the initial purchase price of EVs under what an ICE can compete with Some snap in time clickbait article won't change the technological tsunami. Even if the US drags it's feet, the rest of the world will eagerly adopt them. EVs promise energy independent and cheap transport combined with wind / solar. Every automaker knows this to differing levels of organizational denial, but they all feel it coming.

hollandheese 3y ago
>Charging at home is difficult compared to driving to a gas station? It absolutely could be. Ever lived in an apartment?
tekknik 3y ago
You realize this isn’t the first EV hype cycle yes? They’ve been tried before and as the article states the early adopter market is saturated worldwide. There are some very real problems that can’t be solved by battery tech, and only by removing the battery and switching to an alternative fuel source. The only reason EVs are succeeding now given all their shortcomings is because we’re being forced into them. Remove that force and I don’t see EVs seeing mass adoption.
- AtlasBarfed 3y ago
  Oh there were 400 mile cars cheaper than ice cars before? Look Tesla can already build EVs at price parity with ices, they are currently sitting here n their profit margin. This isn't a hype cycle, Chinese EV makers and battery suppliers have 200+ wh/kg lfp and 150 wh/kg sodium ion in mass production scaling. This isn't a hype cycle, there are entire car companies in mass production with equal to ice costs now, and the cheaper than ice can ever be is in production scaling. Yes it won't be over night, but if you are doing production planning, financing, stock prediction and other 5-10 year planning, the writing now on the wall. This is without solid state and sulfur techs. Im only talking about the CATL LFP and sodium ion techs. Those alone will beat ices on cost at initial purchase, to say nothing of cheaper permile "fuel" and maintenance costs. And keep me n me and wind / solar is STILL dropping in cost, under what any old school power generation method has been. EV costs will only drop. " Very real problems" Please name one

justsomeoldguy 3y ago

it depends on how much charging you want. all EV's can charge off of a slower 115vac 15amp circuit. At my last place I had a dedicated 40amp 230vac socket much like you'd have installed for a big electric heater in a garage or a pool heater or a dryer. Good recharge times which I actually have only needed once in my life. At my current place I'm just using an extension cord to my outdoor outlet and I give it the 1500 watt option. You can even cut that in half if you don't want the "my this cord is warm.." effect. In the end, the slower charge is the better charge, so my laziness has been winning. I don't see installing a 230vac socket any time soon given how well it's been working. I've got an older phev that originally only got 14 miles of pure electric @ up to 79 mph, it's battery is down to about 9 miles expected. And that isn't a lot, but it is enough for 90% of my trips around town. Where you REALLY see this working well is if you have to go out every day to pick something or someone up locally. The amount of fuel burned on warmup cycles and local trips is not insubstantial. The gas tank needle just LOVES to move with every small trip otherwise. I sometimes go months without buying gas using that tiny miniscule range.

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
the question I can never find anyone answering is pretty straightforward. is it cheaper paying the electricity for charging? I can't imagine it is, but while everyone talks about things like only having to gas up once every 4 months now, it's not as if the electricity comes for free.
- michael1999 3y ago
  There are several people in this thread explaining it is about 10x cheaper. A base Tesla 3 is 70kWh * 5¢/kWh (my Toronto overnight rate) is ~$3.50 CAD for ~400km range. Gas in my Volvo C30 would be 400km * 8l/100km * $1/l = $32 CAD. If you drive every day, a plugin-electric can save you a LOT of money. And that's before the savings in oil, brakes, and other maintenance. I'm stuck with street parking, so it is much less appealing to me.
  - tekknik 3y ago

insane_dreamer 3y ago

> How I'd find someone to do this work on my garage, and how much it would cost is a huge unknown, and that's just enough friction to simply not consider getting an EV. Car dealerships will sell the hookups and have connections with local companies who will install for you. No effort required on your part .

turtlebits 3y ago

Plug it into any AC outlet. I gain around 50 miles overnight, which is plenty for my commute/errands.

iAMkenough 3y ago

If you own a home, you should learn how to locate local trade workers you can trust. You're going to need an electrician eventually, might as well find one before an emergency.