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Maybe I'm an exceptionally paranoid person (high probability) but I would never ever ever send payment or my payment info if I am looking for a job. I will inpu

Maybe I'm an exceptionally paranoid person (high probability) but I would never ever ever send payment or my payment info if I am looking for a job. I will input that into a HRM application like Workday or ADP, but no salary could convince me to give up that information directly before I've signed legal paperwork like a contract or tax documents. What I'm far more concerned about with totally fake job listings are the foreign placement agencies that harvest data from resumes and interview native citizens to get information and terminology to prop up their foreign candidate's resume's over the native candidates. The placement agency makes their candidates look far better based on the information mined from the resumes and interviews, they learn how to speak about technology they don't fully understand. The employee gets a placement, the Business gets a cheap H1B indentured worker, and the Agency gets a fatter commission for selling a "more qualified" candidate.

saulpw 3y ago
> Maybe I'm an exceptionally paranoid person (high probability) but I would never ever ever send payment or my payment info if I am looking for a job. Sure, we all get wiser as we get older. Would you have known this when you were 22?
- xerox13ster 3y ago
  Yes, it would never have made sense to me to pay money to someone to earn money. I was 18/19, and had stupidly dropped out of a college I hated for a relationship and found a job posting in the paper for a "warehouse job". I called, they said come in for an interview. I was ecstatic, what a win! My girlfriend drove me there, and it was a door-to-door steak sales job. They told me all the usual you can make so much money doing this, you work your way up and make connections and grow your area. They told me at the end when I was almost into it that I would have to buy the steaks from them and pay myself off the difference. I looked at the dumbasses around me buying it with fresh eyes and saw that they were people VERY MUCH not in good places in life and got up and walked out. 2 years of bullshit jobs later, I found my way back to the tech career I went to college for, but in support not development bc degree issues.
  - ryandrake 3y ago
    "This is not a job--it's a business opportunity, and like all business opportunities, it requires a meaningful up-front investment from you. This investment buys you access to the tools you need to [...]" - Fraudster I can see trusting or impressionable 18-19 year olds falling for this, especially if this is their first interviewing experience and job offer--they might think it's normal.
throwup238 3y ago
You’re not exceptionally paranoid. The only time I ever reveal bank information is after signing an employment agreement and it’s always on the direct deposit authorization provided by ADP/Gusto/w.e HR software they use, never to a company representative. I’m seeing more and more applications ask for DEI information like sexual orientation and gender identification too - information that I consider almost as private. I can’t believe anyone fills them out sight unseen. But as the sibling comment says, wisdom comes with age (mistakes)
- jprete 3y ago
  Asking for DEI information sounds like an invitation to candidates to sue for discrimination.
- omoikane 3y ago
  > wisdom comes with age Actually if you are of a certain age, you might have been in an era where providing extra information to HR was commonplace. I think for my first job I just filled out my bank account info on paper and did not interact with any payroll software at all. But I don't remember being asked about DEI information, I am not sure they cared back then.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    My current job with a software company is the first time I directly interacted with electronic payroll and HR systems.
- CoastalCoder 3y ago
  In the U.S., I think employers are required to ask specific questions about ethnicity, gender identity, veteran status, disabilities, and if you're authorized to work in the U.S. Except for that last question, I think they're required to let your answer be "I prefer not to answer".
  - throwup238 3y ago
    Those questions are usually at the end of the job application and when you've filled out enough of them, you can tell the difference between one platform's legal boilerplate and questions added manually by the employer. All of the sexual orientation questions are clearly of the latter sort. Neither the federal government nor my state require asking anything about sexual orientation. (And yes I do answer "Prefer not to self identify" to the ethnicity question and all of the employer added ones)
arp242 3y ago
I don't think that jut payment info on its own is harmful to send; that's just your name + bank account number, no? Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, but I don't really see how anyone can really do anything with that. The "you're starting next week but first need to pay X monetary units to cover $bullshit_cost" on the other hand is an old scam.
- jprete 3y ago
  Someone's name and bank account number are enough to write a bad check. The system was designed with a certain amount of trust in mind, and the expectation that the customers will behave in a way that makes scammers obvious.
  - j4yav 3y ago
    We don’t even use checks where I live, so still seems like a geographical thing. I can print out my bank account number and put it on a billboard and all anyone can do is deposit money.
    - avereveard 3y ago
      Are you sure about that? In Europe Iban is half the info (the other is your identity) needed to create a SDD on an online shop. Granted, you have a year to contest charges and get the money back, but still.
      - j4yav 3y ago
        Pretty sure. Every company I interact with puts their IBAN on their invoices, as do I. I have IBANs for several friends and they have mine. I know the names of all these people. HSBC at https://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/solutions/iban-and-bic https://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/solutions/iban-and-bic says you're supposed to give it away to anyone who you want to make a payment to you - presumably they wouldn't do that if it was also the golden ticket to take money out of your account knowing only their name. Or at least they'd be very careful to say that you absolutely should make sure that anyone who pays you doesn't know your name (although, that sounds ridiculous). I have to assume you're using "the other is your identity" in a way different from the thread here where they said all they need to know your name and account number? I have a digital identity which includes a password and multi-factor authentication, but again that's pretty far removed from something like anyone who knows your name and account number can withdraw whatever money they like.
PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
hell, I once had my company send out an email that I was sure was a phishing email. I reported it and was told that, nope, they really did want me to re-upload all of my tax documents to this shady ass URL. I just quietly never did it, no one seemed to notice. We'll see if it has an effect, but if that was actually real, whoever planned that out should be fired.
- NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
  Back when I was younger, I was phone support for a phone company's DSL department. They sent out an email telling the customers that we'd never send emails asking for their passwords. Then, less than 3 weeks later, they sent out a mass email telling customers that we had security issues and that they needed them to send their passwords to us. I'm pretty sure this is common.
  - PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
    people should honestly be fired over things like that. The entire email that was sent out had every red flag for a phishing attempt that you could possibly imagine. absolutely no information in the email that wasn't easily obtainable public information. They sent a username and password, the username was my first name, the password was "<parent-company-name>1", things like that. yet they were all over a PO who tried to send out gift cards via amazon as a security flaw. and refused to release the emails when the PO reached out to them about it. there's a reason I don't have much respect for "security" people.
- LorenPechtel 3y ago
  Maybe somebody in HR goofed up and didn't keep required documentation. They didn't want to admit their mistake so they couldn't squawk about you not doing it.
0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago
Just a reminder that everyone should setup a dedicated account for incoming money. Direct deposits go here, and then are transferred to a different account. More sophisticated take over might be able to drain all of your accounts, but it is likely to limit your losses to a single pay period.

saulpw 3y ago

> Maybe I'm an exceptionally paranoid person (high probability) but I would never ever ever send payment or my payment info if I am looking for a job. Sure, we all get wiser as we get older. Would you have known this when you were 22?

xerox13ster 3y ago
Yes, it would never have made sense to me to pay money to someone to earn money. I was 18/19, and had stupidly dropped out of a college I hated for a relationship and found a job posting in the paper for a "warehouse job". I called, they said come in for an interview. I was ecstatic, what a win! My girlfriend drove me there, and it was a door-to-door steak sales job. They told me all the usual you can make so much money doing this, you work your way up and make connections and grow your area. They told me at the end when I was almost into it that I would have to buy the steaks from them and pay myself off the difference. I looked at the dumbasses around me buying it with fresh eyes and saw that they were people VERY MUCH not in good places in life and got up and walked out. 2 years of bullshit jobs later, I found my way back to the tech career I went to college for, but in support not development bc degree issues.
- ryandrake 3y ago
  "This is not a job--it's a business opportunity, and like all business opportunities, it requires a meaningful up-front investment from you. This investment buys you access to the tools you need to [...]" - Fraudster I can see trusting or impressionable 18-19 year olds falling for this, especially if this is their first interviewing experience and job offer--they might think it's normal.

throwup238 3y ago

You’re not exceptionally paranoid. The only time I ever reveal bank information is after signing an employment agreement and it’s always on the direct deposit authorization provided by ADP/Gusto/w.e HR software they use, never to a company representative. I’m seeing more and more applications ask for DEI information like sexual orientation and gender identification too - information that I consider almost as private. I can’t believe anyone fills them out sight unseen. But as the sibling comment says, wisdom comes with age (mistakes)

jprete 3y ago
Asking for DEI information sounds like an invitation to candidates to sue for discrimination.
omoikane 3y ago
> wisdom comes with age Actually if you are of a certain age, you might have been in an era where providing extra information to HR was commonplace. I think for my first job I just filled out my bank account info on paper and did not interact with any payroll software at all. But I don't remember being asked about DEI information, I am not sure they cared back then.
- ghaff 3y ago
  My current job with a software company is the first time I directly interacted with electronic payroll and HR systems.
CoastalCoder 3y ago
In the U.S., I think employers are required to ask specific questions about ethnicity, gender identity, veteran status, disabilities, and if you're authorized to work in the U.S. Except for that last question, I think they're required to let your answer be "I prefer not to answer".
- throwup238 3y ago
  Those questions are usually at the end of the job application and when you've filled out enough of them, you can tell the difference between one platform's legal boilerplate and questions added manually by the employer. All of the sexual orientation questions are clearly of the latter sort. Neither the federal government nor my state require asking anything about sexual orientation. (And yes I do answer "Prefer not to self identify" to the ethnicity question and all of the employer added ones)

arp242 3y ago

I don't think that jut payment info on its own is harmful to send; that's just your name + bank account number, no? Maybe it's different in other parts of the world, but I don't really see how anyone can really do anything with that. The "you're starting next week but first need to pay X monetary units to cover $bullshit_cost" on the other hand is an old scam.

jprete 3y ago
Someone's name and bank account number are enough to write a bad check. The system was designed with a certain amount of trust in mind, and the expectation that the customers will behave in a way that makes scammers obvious.
- j4yav 3y ago
  We don’t even use checks where I live, so still seems like a geographical thing. I can print out my bank account number and put it on a billboard and all anyone can do is deposit money.
  - avereveard 3y ago
    Are you sure about that? In Europe Iban is half the info (the other is your identity) needed to create a SDD on an online shop. Granted, you have a year to contest charges and get the money back, but still.
    - j4yav 3y ago
      Pretty sure. Every company I interact with puts their IBAN on their invoices, as do I. I have IBANs for several friends and they have mine. I know the names of all these people. HSBC at https://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/solutions/iban-and-bic https://www.business.hsbc.uk/en-gb/solutions/iban-and-bic says you're supposed to give it away to anyone who you want to make a payment to you - presumably they wouldn't do that if it was also the golden ticket to take money out of your account knowing only their name. Or at least they'd be very careful to say that you absolutely should make sure that anyone who pays you doesn't know your name (although, that sounds ridiculous). I have to assume you're using "the other is your identity" in a way different from the thread here where they said all they need to know your name and account number? I have a digital identity which includes a password and multi-factor authentication, but again that's pretty far removed from something like anyone who knows your name and account number can withdraw whatever money they like.

PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago

hell, I once had my company send out an email that I was sure was a phishing email. I reported it and was told that, nope, they really did want me to re-upload all of my tax documents to this shady ass URL. I just quietly never did it, no one seemed to notice. We'll see if it has an effect, but if that was actually real, whoever planned that out should be fired.

NoMoreNicksLeft 3y ago
Back when I was younger, I was phone support for a phone company's DSL department. They sent out an email telling the customers that we'd never send emails asking for their passwords. Then, less than 3 weeks later, they sent out a mass email telling customers that we had security issues and that they needed them to send their passwords to us. I'm pretty sure this is common.
- PH95VuimJjqBqy 3y ago
  people should honestly be fired over things like that. The entire email that was sent out had every red flag for a phishing attempt that you could possibly imagine. absolutely no information in the email that wasn't easily obtainable public information. They sent a username and password, the username was my first name, the password was "<parent-company-name>1", things like that. yet they were all over a PO who tried to send out gift cards via amazon as a security flaw. and refused to release the emails when the PO reached out to them about it. there's a reason I don't have much respect for "security" people.
LorenPechtel 3y ago
Maybe somebody in HR goofed up and didn't keep required documentation. They didn't want to admit their mistake so they couldn't squawk about you not doing it.

0cf8612b2e1e 3y ago

Just a reminder that everyone should setup a dedicated account for incoming money. Direct deposits go here, and then are transferred to a different account. More sophisticated take over might be able to drain all of your accounts, but it is likely to limit your losses to a single pay period.