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With 12AWG, depending on the cable type and rating, you can bring 20-30A (90C rated) of power to go with your fiber in the same pull. The cable might be expensi

With 12AWG, depending on the cable type and rating, you can bring 20-30A (90C rated) of power to go with your fiber in the same pull. The cable might be expensive but I’m sure the use case is great for when you don’t want to spend $10,000 on bringing a service trunk and meter to where your network equipment is being installed.

dylan604 3y ago
Sounds perfect for long runs requiring repeaters/boosters or whatever kind of inline equipment that could be necessary
- wongarsu 3y ago
  And power the network gear at the end of the fibre run at the same time
  - dylan604 3y ago
    Even for remote connections requiring a data line, seems like supplying power via solar/battery. Otherwise, you'll get some asshat that plugs in their microwave and/or kettle and ruins it for everyone else.
nick222226 3y ago
Electricians hate this one trick!
dwater 3y ago
OM4 fiber is rated at 10GB up to 500m or ~1800ft, and the amount of current that 12AWG copper could carry at that distance with acceptable voltage drop is pretty low, so you'd probably still need to be stepping the voltage up and down on each end. I looked into this recently daydreaming about building a small office in the woods.
quickthrowman 3y ago
> With 12AWG, depending on the cable type and rating, you can bring 20-30A (90C rated) of power to go with your fiber in the same pull. Wire size is calculated off the 75C column of the ampacity table (NEC 310.16) so #12 wire is only good for 25A. The reason being, there are almost no circuit breakers rated for 90C, the terminals/lugs are only rated for 75C in nearly all cases. Forum thread w discussion: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/90-degree-or-75-degree.2551455/ https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/90-degree-or-75-degree.2...
- Moto7451 3y ago
  For residential, yes, but commercial is a different story. Schneider will happily sell you 90c rated equipment beyond the wire. They provide excellent guidance: https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/0110db9901wiretempratetermdb/0110db9901-wire-temp-ratings-and-terminations/0110DB9901%20Wire%20Temp%20Ratings%20and%20Terminations/English/0110DB9901%20(bookmap)_0000485497.xml/$/TheNECRules-D1995BA7#EquipmentRatedFor100AOrLessNEC110.1-D1B8465D2 https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/0110db9901wir... I don’t think anyone needs shared fiber and 12ga cable in a home setting anyway. The NEC also defers to UL and similar bodies for installations being cleared so the complexities go beyond the basic NEC guidance, especially for the exotic stuff out there.
  - quickthrowman 3y ago
    I’m a commercial electrical project manager and I’ve never seen a spec call for 90C rated breakers. I bought dozens of panelboards last year from multiple manufacturers, including Square D. You also need equipment lugs/terminal blocks/wire nuts rated for 90C. I’m not saying 90C rated parts don’t exist, it’s just uncommon enough that you select wire based on the 75C column by default, even in a commercial setting.

dylan604 3y ago

Sounds perfect for long runs requiring repeaters/boosters or whatever kind of inline equipment that could be necessary

wongarsu 3y ago
And power the network gear at the end of the fibre run at the same time
- dylan604 3y ago
  Even for remote connections requiring a data line, seems like supplying power via solar/battery. Otherwise, you'll get some asshat that plugs in their microwave and/or kettle and ruins it for everyone else.

nick222226 3y ago

Electricians hate this one trick!

dwater 3y ago

OM4 fiber is rated at 10GB up to 500m or ~1800ft, and the amount of current that 12AWG copper could carry at that distance with acceptable voltage drop is pretty low, so you'd probably still need to be stepping the voltage up and down on each end. I looked into this recently daydreaming about building a small office in the woods.

quickthrowman 3y ago

> With 12AWG, depending on the cable type and rating, you can bring 20-30A (90C rated) of power to go with your fiber in the same pull. Wire size is calculated off the 75C column of the ampacity table (NEC 310.16) so #12 wire is only good for 25A. The reason being, there are almost no circuit breakers rated for 90C, the terminals/lugs are only rated for 75C in nearly all cases. Forum thread w discussion: https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/90-degree-or-75-degree.2551455/ https://forums.mikeholt.com/threads/90-degree-or-75-degree.2...

Moto7451 3y ago
For residential, yes, but commercial is a different story. Schneider will happily sell you 90c rated equipment beyond the wire. They provide excellent guidance: https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/0110db9901wiretempratetermdb/0110db9901-wire-temp-ratings-and-terminations/0110DB9901%20Wire%20Temp%20Ratings%20and%20Terminations/English/0110DB9901%20(bookmap)_0000485497.xml/$/TheNECRules-D1995BA7#EquipmentRatedFor100AOrLessNEC110.1-D1B8465D2 https://www.productinfo.schneider-electric.com/0110db9901wir... I don’t think anyone needs shared fiber and 12ga cable in a home setting anyway. The NEC also defers to UL and similar bodies for installations being cleared so the complexities go beyond the basic NEC guidance, especially for the exotic stuff out there.
- quickthrowman 3y ago
  I’m a commercial electrical project manager and I’ve never seen a spec call for 90C rated breakers. I bought dozens of panelboards last year from multiple manufacturers, including Square D. You also need equipment lugs/terminal blocks/wire nuts rated for 90C. I’m not saying 90C rated parts don’t exist, it’s just uncommon enough that you select wire based on the 75C column by default, even in a commercial setting.