4 ms·

Bolt can't fast charge, at some point we need to look beyond the single family home consumer

by shmatt 3y ago

blackguardx 3y ago
My Bolt supports DC charging at 55 kW. What is considered “fast?”
- xeromal 3y ago
  The OG Tesla chargers charged at 125kW but the standard ones now charge at 250kW and a select few newer cars charge at 350kW. 55kW sounds like it uses Chademo?
  - micromacrofoot 3y ago
    it uses CCS
  - bluGill 3y ago
    CCS, but the car itself is limited to 55kw. Most EVs can charge faster, the bolt is really slow.
- bluGill 3y ago
  More than that. My brother has a bolt and is looking at a road trip next week - 3 hour+ charge cycles are required to make the trip. If it could be 3 20 minute charges he would be much happier. (6 10 minute charges would be better). Most of the time he is happy with that car - he rarely goes on trips so far that he needs to stop, and when he does he planned to take the ICE minivan, but this time his wife needs the minivan so he is stuck.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, I wouldn't really get one if I had to go >350 miles on anything but extraordinarily rare occasions. But I have owned cars that fit that usage model really well. I used to have a "second" car that was used as a commuter. It would only very rarely go on trips, and even then only up to ~300 miles. If it had been an EV, it would likely have been more like a primary car, but the gas car would have been the backup for long trips.
micromacrofoot 3y ago
Bolt can absolutely fast charge, I've done it myself — the feature has to be added when purchasing, and it's limited to 55kW (~80% in an hour depending on conditions). The slower rate is partially how they kept the price down AFAIK.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Thankfully, DCFC is now standard! The rate isn't phenomenal, just as you pointed out, but this car competes with Civics. Many of those are purely commuter cars that might only very rarely do 300-400 miles. It is a great vehicle.
- Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
  IMO, having such a slow charge rate (Yes, 55 kW is slow) is extremely detrimental to EV adoption because it feeds into the narrative that it takes 45+ minutes to charge the car which just simply isn't true for any decent EV. This is what frustrates me about EV makers that aren't Tesla. They frequently half-ass their EV and then get all Surprised Pikachu when they don't sell, and then they incorrectly just say "Huh people don't actually want EVs". I'm not trying to sound like a Tesla fanboy (I own one, but I'm not a fanboy), but the Model 3 is the standard upon which any EV is going to be compared. If you don't support 250 kW charging with at least 250 miles of range, you're making a shitty EV that nobody will want. Sure, you can probably forgo the self-driving features, and the huge touch-screen interface is a bug more than a feature, but you cannot skimp on range and charging capabilities.
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    Yeah, I remember when Chevrolet bragged a lot about beating the Model 3 to market and how great it was. But it had optional fast charging of only ~50kw! Their management really could not understand the idea that the prime consumer for this would be middle-class people in suburban homes, and that they'd want to occasionally road trip their nearly $40k EV. They'd imagine only people in urban areas would want them and then imagine this huge catch-22 around urban charging. Their early forays into charging partnerships all reflected that, with chatter about building lower speed urban locations. Reality was so much different. Having said that, prices have come down a _lot_ since that introduction. I think there are a lot of people who'd find it usable, given prices that are lower than a Civic with the current incentives.
_ea1k 3y ago
Sure, but we don't have to look past them to get to 50% market share. The market can grow by 5x without moving past them. The problem in the US is that you have to have really large market share to start convincing property owners that they should install chargers. Thankfully, we are seeing this, with widespread installations at hotels this year. I'm guessing apartments won't be too far behind that in metropolitan areas.

Bolt can't fast charge, at some point we need to look beyond the single family home consumer

by shmatt 3y ago

Bolt can't fast charge, at some point we need to look beyond the single family home consumer

blackguardx 3y ago

My Bolt supports DC charging at 55 kW. What is considered “fast?”

xeromal 3y ago
The OG Tesla chargers charged at 125kW but the standard ones now charge at 250kW and a select few newer cars charge at 350kW. 55kW sounds like it uses Chademo?
- micromacrofoot 3y ago
  it uses CCS
- bluGill 3y ago
  CCS, but the car itself is limited to 55kw. Most EVs can charge faster, the bolt is really slow.
bluGill 3y ago
More than that. My brother has a bolt and is looking at a road trip next week - 3 hour+ charge cycles are required to make the trip. If it could be 3 20 minute charges he would be much happier. (6 10 minute charges would be better). Most of the time he is happy with that car - he rarely goes on trips so far that he needs to stop, and when he does he planned to take the ICE minivan, but this time his wife needs the minivan so he is stuck.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Yeah, I wouldn't really get one if I had to go >350 miles on anything but extraordinarily rare occasions. But I have owned cars that fit that usage model really well. I used to have a "second" car that was used as a commuter. It would only very rarely go on trips, and even then only up to ~300 miles. If it had been an EV, it would likely have been more like a primary car, but the gas car would have been the backup for long trips.

micromacrofoot 3y ago

Bolt can absolutely fast charge, I've done it myself — the feature has to be added when purchasing, and it's limited to 55kW (~80% in an hour depending on conditions). The slower rate is partially how they kept the price down AFAIK.

_ea1k 3y ago
Thankfully, DCFC is now standard! The rate isn't phenomenal, just as you pointed out, but this car competes with Civics. Many of those are purely commuter cars that might only very rarely do 300-400 miles. It is a great vehicle.
Sohcahtoa82 3y ago
IMO, having such a slow charge rate (Yes, 55 kW is slow) is extremely detrimental to EV adoption because it feeds into the narrative that it takes 45+ minutes to charge the car which just simply isn't true for any decent EV. This is what frustrates me about EV makers that aren't Tesla. They frequently half-ass their EV and then get all Surprised Pikachu when they don't sell, and then they incorrectly just say "Huh people don't actually want EVs". I'm not trying to sound like a Tesla fanboy (I own one, but I'm not a fanboy), but the Model 3 is the standard upon which any EV is going to be compared. If you don't support 250 kW charging with at least 250 miles of range, you're making a shitty EV that nobody will want. Sure, you can probably forgo the self-driving features, and the huge touch-screen interface is a bug more than a feature, but you cannot skimp on range and charging capabilities.
- _ea1k 3y ago
  Yeah, I remember when Chevrolet bragged a lot about beating the Model 3 to market and how great it was. But it had optional fast charging of only ~50kw! Their management really could not understand the idea that the prime consumer for this would be middle-class people in suburban homes, and that they'd want to occasionally road trip their nearly $40k EV. They'd imagine only people in urban areas would want them and then imagine this huge catch-22 around urban charging. Their early forays into charging partnerships all reflected that, with chatter about building lower speed urban locations. Reality was so much different. Having said that, prices have come down a _lot_ since that introduction. I think there are a lot of people who'd find it usable, given prices that are lower than a Civic with the current incentives.

_ea1k 3y ago

Sure, but we don't have to look past them to get to 50% market share. The market can grow by 5x without moving past them. The problem in the US is that you have to have really large market share to start convincing property owners that they should install chargers. Thankfully, we are seeing this, with widespread installations at hotels this year. I'm guessing apartments won't be too far behind that in metropolitan areas.