5 ms·

Until they can produce an EV that doesn’t feel like a massive downgrade in connvience, performance, cost, basically all the ways normal people measure the decis

Until they can produce an EV that doesn’t feel like a massive downgrade in connvience, performance, cost, basically all the ways normal people measure the decision of buying a car, I’m not sold. I like the fact it takes a few minutes to refuel my car, and it’s the same process regardless if I’m traveling 5 miles or 500. I don’t need to deal with charging stations, and if I run out of gas I can take a gas can to the car and problem solved. I can also store as much excess gasoline as I want just by having an extra container and if I take it with me, I can basically define whatever range I want. I also don’t mind stopping at gas stations and it’s part of my routine where I like to talk to the people there. Sitting alone for an hour in a parking lot where I have somewhere to be isn’t my cup of tea. I don’t want a vehicle that gradually looses half of its range over time, then has to have over $10k invested (sometimes quite a bit more) in a new battery every 100-150k miles. It’s like buying a gasoline car where the engine not only wears out and performance greatly degrades, but is virtually guaranteed it will always need a complete engine replacement. I don’t want to worry about greatly reduced range in the winter. I don’t want to worry about a battery fire. When’s the last time you have seen a gasoline car spontaneously combust just sitting in a garage? Despite having a lot of flammable liquid it just doesn’t happen. I also expect the resale value of the car to be reasonable, at least consistent with a good quality gasoline car. Then there’s Elon Musk. His toxicity is reason alone for me to delay any EV purchase (not just Tesla) for as long as possible. Outside of the tech echo chamber, I think I represent the majority of people who aren’t interested in EV’s and likely never will be. I wouldn’t care if they had a full self driving car, or make the car out of glass, or put a giant screen in it, I’m not buying it.

ben_w 3y ago
> and if I run out of gas I can take a gas can to the car and problem solved. Fair. IMO there should at least be an emergency slot for a short-range battery to get you a few miles. > I don’t want a vehicle that gradually looses half of its range over time, then has to have over $10k invested (sometimes quite a bit more) in a new battery every 100-150k miles. It’s like buying a gasoline car where the engine not only wears out and performance greatly degrades, but is virtually guaranteed it will always need a complete engine replacement. Sure, but also the engine doesn't need (so much) servicing in the meantime. You can pick your poison — and yours preference is of course valid, and I suspect the norm — but there's no perfect answer. > When’s the last time you have seen a gasoline car spontaneously combust just sitting in a garage? Despite having a lot of flammable liquid it just doesn’t happen. Apparently it does: https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/ https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasolin... > Then there’s Elon Musk. He’s reason alone for me to delay any EV purchase (not just Tesla) for as long as possible. This is a bit of a surprise. "Musk -> no Tesla" I can understand, but why take his shenanigans to also exclude all the other car companies?
Sankozi 3y ago
You need to choose better sources. Your post seems like a list of common anti EV fake tropes. Except battery range, charging time during long trip and initial cost (of a new car) EV are already better than ICE. You don't change battery every 100-150 miles due to 50% capacity loss. You lose maybe ~10% by then. Unless you are driving in Arctica you don't lose much range in winter (and in ICE you lose range too). Your ICE car is more likely to spontaneously combust than EV car.
vel0city 3y ago
> I like the fact it takes a few minutes to refuel my car I guarantee you spend more time fueling your ICE than I do my EV in a given year.
- bluGill 3y ago
  I'm not sure. How long does it take you to plug in and unplug every day? Sure it is only a few seconds, but those add up. The ICE is a few minutes every week or two.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    I don't plug in every day, only a couple of times a week. So maybe 20-30 seconds total every week or two. Compared to 5+ minutes every week or two, which is how long I spend with my ICE. That's at least 10x longer.
- iamleppert 3y ago
  Have you stopped to consider that I don’t have a garage? That many, many drivers don’t have a private garage and their own EV charger? Basically anyone who lives in a regular apartment doesn’t have a garage and thus can’t charge their car at night. If EVs are to succeed they need to work for the masses as good or better than what we have now. Not just your rich techie with a Tesla parked in their private garage in Palo Alto.
  - vel0city 3y ago
    Have you stopped to consider people outside of rich techies in Palo Alto also have garages?
    - iamleppert 3y ago
      Less than half of all vehicle owners have access to a garage or carport with an electrical outlet. If EV’s are to have mass appeal, how do you reconcile that? Most apartments have few (or none) EV chargers. I can barely get my apartment to follow through with maintenance requests, let alone install an EV charger. Why bother with that hassle when my Honda Civic that already gets 35 mpg that I bought for $12k cash works just fine? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1325245/us-parking-situation-at-home-for-car-owners/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%2048%20percent%20of,street%20parking%20but%20no%20access https://www.statista.com/statistics/1325245/us-parking-situa...
thebruce87m 3y ago
Lots of FUD in this post, but this one sticks out: > When’s the last time you have seen a gasoline car spontaneously combust just sitting in a garage? Despite having a lot of flammable liquid it just doesn’t happen. I’ve never seen an ICE or an EV catch fire. I can count the number of car fires I’ve seen on one hand, but ICE cars do spontaneously combust: Hyundai/Kia: > Some of the fire risk issues were so severe, vehicle owners were encouraged to park their vehicles outside and away from their homes or other structures in case the car spontaneously caught on fire. Ford: > Ford issued a fire safety recall for over 39,000 vehicles, urging vehicle owners to park their cars outside due to the increased fire risk. Drivers reported fires while their cars were unattended and a burning smell and smoke from the front passenger area while driving. Mercedes: > This defect allows water from external sources to get into the electrical connections of the wiring harness. Water on electric components can cause short circuits, leading to an increased fire risk if the ignition is turned off for long periods of time. https://normantaylor.com/blog/which-cars-catch-fire-the-most/ https://normantaylor.com/blog/which-cars-catch-fire-the-most... Sure, EVs catch fire. But they are 20x less likely to than an ICE. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-ti...

ben_w 3y ago

> and if I run out of gas I can take a gas can to the car and problem solved. Fair. IMO there should at least be an emergency slot for a short-range battery to get you a few miles. > I don’t want a vehicle that gradually looses half of its range over time, then has to have over $10k invested (sometimes quite a bit more) in a new battery every 100-150k miles. It’s like buying a gasoline car where the engine not only wears out and performance greatly degrades, but is virtually guaranteed it will always need a complete engine replacement. Sure, but also the engine doesn't need (so much) servicing in the meantime. You can pick your poison — and yours preference is of course valid, and I suspect the norm — but there's no perfect answer. > When’s the last time you have seen a gasoline car spontaneously combust just sitting in a garage? Despite having a lot of flammable liquid it just doesn’t happen. Apparently it does: https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasoline-vehicles-are-significantly-more-prone-to-fires-than-evs/ https://electrek.co/2022/01/12/government-data-shows-gasolin... > Then there’s Elon Musk. He’s reason alone for me to delay any EV purchase (not just Tesla) for as long as possible. This is a bit of a surprise. "Musk -> no Tesla" I can understand, but why take his shenanigans to also exclude all the other car companies?

Sankozi 3y ago

You need to choose better sources. Your post seems like a list of common anti EV fake tropes. Except battery range, charging time during long trip and initial cost (of a new car) EV are already better than ICE. You don't change battery every 100-150 miles due to 50% capacity loss. You lose maybe ~10% by then. Unless you are driving in Arctica you don't lose much range in winter (and in ICE you lose range too). Your ICE car is more likely to spontaneously combust than EV car.

vel0city 3y ago

> I like the fact it takes a few minutes to refuel my car I guarantee you spend more time fueling your ICE than I do my EV in a given year.

bluGill 3y ago
I'm not sure. How long does it take you to plug in and unplug every day? Sure it is only a few seconds, but those add up. The ICE is a few minutes every week or two.
- vel0city 3y ago
  I don't plug in every day, only a couple of times a week. So maybe 20-30 seconds total every week or two. Compared to 5+ minutes every week or two, which is how long I spend with my ICE. That's at least 10x longer.
iamleppert 3y ago
Have you stopped to consider that I don’t have a garage? That many, many drivers don’t have a private garage and their own EV charger? Basically anyone who lives in a regular apartment doesn’t have a garage and thus can’t charge their car at night. If EVs are to succeed they need to work for the masses as good or better than what we have now. Not just your rich techie with a Tesla parked in their private garage in Palo Alto.
- vel0city 3y ago
  Have you stopped to consider people outside of rich techies in Palo Alto also have garages?
  - iamleppert 3y ago
    Less than half of all vehicle owners have access to a garage or carport with an electrical outlet. If EV’s are to have mass appeal, how do you reconcile that? Most apartments have few (or none) EV chargers. I can barely get my apartment to follow through with maintenance requests, let alone install an EV charger. Why bother with that hassle when my Honda Civic that already gets 35 mpg that I bought for $12k cash works just fine? https://www.statista.com/statistics/1325245/us-parking-situation-at-home-for-car-owners/#:~:text=In%202022%2C%2048%20percent%20of,street%20parking%20but%20no%20access https://www.statista.com/statistics/1325245/us-parking-situa...

thebruce87m 3y ago

Lots of FUD in this post, but this one sticks out: > When’s the last time you have seen a gasoline car spontaneously combust just sitting in a garage? Despite having a lot of flammable liquid it just doesn’t happen. I’ve never seen an ICE or an EV catch fire. I can count the number of car fires I’ve seen on one hand, but ICE cars do spontaneously combust: Hyundai/Kia: > Some of the fire risk issues were so severe, vehicle owners were encouraged to park their vehicles outside and away from their homes or other structures in case the car spontaneously caught on fire. Ford: > Ford issued a fire safety recall for over 39,000 vehicles, urging vehicle owners to park their cars outside due to the increased fire risk. Drivers reported fires while their cars were unattended and a burning smell and smoke from the front passenger area while driving. Mercedes: > This defect allows water from external sources to get into the electrical connections of the wiring harness. Water on electric components can cause short circuits, leading to an increased fire risk if the ignition is turned off for long periods of time. https://normantaylor.com/blog/which-cars-catch-fire-the-most/ https://normantaylor.com/blog/which-cars-catch-fire-the-most... Sure, EVs catch fire. But they are 20x less likely to than an ICE. https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-times-more-likely-to-catch-fire-than-evs/amp/ https://thedriven.io/2023/05/16/petrol-and-diesel-cars-20-ti...