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I keep on seeing this problem reduced to the market or a business decision, but is it simply physically possible? These vehicles require much more energy to pr

by sgu999 3y ago

I keep on seeing this problem reduced to the market or a business decision, but is it simply physically possible? These vehicles require much more energy to produce. And without a reduction in consumption, almost the entire economy accounts for the availability of the same materials in the near future to meet carbon emissions targets. It's not just cars in vacuum. It feels like we simply don't accept yet that the time of cheap energy is over...

sigio 3y ago
With solar (and other renewables) the time of cheap power is only just getting started. It's literally free after building the infrastructure.
- sgu999 3y ago
  > It's literally free after building the infrastructure. That's a gross oversimplification of the problem at hand. The entire supply chain from mining to manufacturing to shipping relies on fossil fuel... The investments to renew all that will have to come from somewhere. It is not "literally" free, it is free only if you ignore the global industrial complex required to build and service them.
  - deleted 3y ago
    [deleted]
lagadu 3y ago
I don't think ever before we had significant periods of time where we actually get paid to use energy from the grid due to overprovisioning with renewables. Plenty of times during the past several years I've had negative electricity cost. Energy seems to be more and more available as we expand the infrastructure.
- sgu999 3y ago
  > I don't think ever before we had significant periods of time where we actually get paid to use energy from the grid due to overprovisioning with renewables Yes, because storage isn't factored in and production is intermittent... A world relying fully on solar panels is also relying fully on batteries, whether it's lithium, hydro or something else, we need to account for that in the price.
jes5199 3y ago
the time of cheap energy is about to begin! solar power is already cheaper than oil ever was, and prices continue to drop
- sgu999 3y ago
  Do you have a source? I think you may be referring to the peak production price without storage. Oil comes with storage: put it in a jug, and use it whenever.
  - jes5199 3y ago
    https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/5fa57fc9d228a73c73ec4669/1604681700368/Rethinking+Energy+2020-2030.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bb...

by sgu999 3y ago

sigio 3y ago

With solar (and other renewables) the time of cheap power is only just getting started. It's literally free after building the infrastructure.

sgu999 3y ago
> It's literally free after building the infrastructure. That's a gross oversimplification of the problem at hand. The entire supply chain from mining to manufacturing to shipping relies on fossil fuel... The investments to renew all that will have to come from somewhere. It is not "literally" free, it is free only if you ignore the global industrial complex required to build and service them.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]

lagadu 3y ago

I don't think ever before we had significant periods of time where we actually get paid to use energy from the grid due to overprovisioning with renewables. Plenty of times during the past several years I've had negative electricity cost. Energy seems to be more and more available as we expand the infrastructure.

sgu999 3y ago
> I don't think ever before we had significant periods of time where we actually get paid to use energy from the grid due to overprovisioning with renewables Yes, because storage isn't factored in and production is intermittent... A world relying fully on solar panels is also relying fully on batteries, whether it's lithium, hydro or something else, we need to account for that in the price.

jes5199 3y ago

the time of cheap energy is about to begin! solar power is already cheaper than oil ever was, and prices continue to drop

sgu999 3y ago
Do you have a source? I think you may be referring to the peak production price without storage. Oil comes with storage: put it in a jug, and use it whenever.
- jes5199 3y ago
  https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bbf9b/t/5fa57fc9d228a73c73ec4669/1604681700368/Rethinking+Energy+2020-2030.pdf https://static1.squarespace.com/static/585c3439be65942f022bb...