5 ms·

> It’s just FUD, BEVs are ready Have you tried going to the mountains in France? Or anywhere not on the main roads, even? I mean actually traveling around, not

> It’s just FUD, BEVs are ready Have you tried going to the mountains in France? Or anywhere not on the main roads, even? I mean actually traveling around, not just taking the highway across. My ICE motorbike has a range of around 300 km on the highway, around 200 in the mountains if I'm enjoying myself. I've had range anxiety with it to the point I now cart around extra gas. None of the gas stations I visited had any kind of charging available (outside your regular outlet, but it's unlikely the attendant will let you hook up your car to the outlet inside the office – if it's even open). Not everybody has the same usage patterns as you do.

eecc 3y ago
> Not everybody has the same usage patterns as you do. Sure, but keep in mind that bikers riding on the rolling hills of the French countryside are a significantly smaller demography than the millions driving across the highway infrastructure.
- vladvasiliu 3y ago
  Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should push everybody to ride electric bikes just because those riding in remote places are few and far between. The feeling I get whenever these discussions come up is that there's a distinct lack of nuance, and a tendency to shove a one-size-fits-all solution down peoples' throats, even though the solution might only fit-most. I get that it's easier to reason with absolutes, and that sometimes some people may need a nudge to take the jump. But I also understand being pushed like this with no apparent concern for peoples' situations can make them close down to the argument, even if it could actually make sense for them in the end. People complaining about range anxiety are usually told "nah man, it's just FUD!" Maybe it is just FUD even for a sizable portion of those complaining, but just dismissing their concerns out of hand doesn't seem like a good approach. And this isn't just a bunch of people on a random discussion board. It's actual policies being enacted affecting peoples' actual lives. Talking about France, in a few years' time my motorbike won't be allowed inside Paris (where I live). I rarely use it. I'd really love to see the proof that building and buying a new one, to replace the one that is in perfect working condition, is actually better for the environment. Especially given that the newer model which complies with the current pollution standards consumes the same amount of gas as mine (judging by the manufacturer's specs). Of course, this law is stupid because it only considers the year the vehicle was sold, but it's just one example of many why people may have a knee-jerk reaction to being forcibly pushed to adopt new things.
  - eecc 3y ago
    Sorry but I’m not that sorry for your bike. https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-records-major-impacts https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-reco... This year we visited the Dolomites and the weather was insane. The place was full of old photo's of meters high snowfalls but all they got this year was a couple centimeters in early December. We need to change our habits, this pace is unsustainable https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-records-major-impacts https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-reco...
    - vladvasiliu 3y ago
      So you're saying that trashing a perfectly good bike and building another one, only to be ridden what? 10000 km at most a year, is a good deal for the environment? And consume the same amount of gas, so put out the same amount of CO2? My bike was an example where the general one-size-fits-all solution is actually counter-productive. This is exactly the issue I'm talking about. I'm all for preserving the environment, I really am. And I think that moving the immense majority of (sub-)urban commuters from ICE to EV is great and will make a difference. Or, even better: stop commuting if possible! Isn't the mantra "reduce, reuse, recycle", "in that order"? How are we reducing or even reusing here? But this whole "replace all ICE vehicles now" just screams of disguised "won't somebody think of the economy?"
      - natch 3y ago
        Electric is quieter, so many people you probably would never even notice or be aware of, who are out there seeking a peaceful direct experience of the mountains, will appreciate the absence of your motorcycle in that respect. Also you make a common mistake of motorcycle owners in equating the amount of gas consumed with the amount of pollution. Smaller engines are by far vastly more polluting per kilometer than larger ones. Which is saying something even worse than saying their per-litre pollution is bad since motorcycles get more kilometers per litre. In other words even with their better per-kilometer gas usage, they still pollute more per unit of distance travelled. That is truly bad, from a pollution perspective. It’s a mistake to think the small amount of gas used means there is less impact. So your motorcycle should be trashed, yes.
lagadu 3y ago
Not the OP but I have been to the Pyrinees and Dolomites in my Model 3 and was perfectly fine. Many, maybe even most of the small villages had at the very least a 50kw charger somewhere on them, often at a hotel or supermarket. I don't think I've ever been further than 100km from a fast charger.

eecc 3y ago

> Not everybody has the same usage patterns as you do. Sure, but keep in mind that bikers riding on the rolling hills of the French countryside are a significantly smaller demography than the millions driving across the highway infrastructure.

vladvasiliu 3y ago
Absolutely. But that doesn't mean we should push everybody to ride electric bikes just because those riding in remote places are few and far between. The feeling I get whenever these discussions come up is that there's a distinct lack of nuance, and a tendency to shove a one-size-fits-all solution down peoples' throats, even though the solution might only fit-most. I get that it's easier to reason with absolutes, and that sometimes some people may need a nudge to take the jump. But I also understand being pushed like this with no apparent concern for peoples' situations can make them close down to the argument, even if it could actually make sense for them in the end. People complaining about range anxiety are usually told "nah man, it's just FUD!" Maybe it is just FUD even for a sizable portion of those complaining, but just dismissing their concerns out of hand doesn't seem like a good approach. And this isn't just a bunch of people on a random discussion board. It's actual policies being enacted affecting peoples' actual lives. Talking about France, in a few years' time my motorbike won't be allowed inside Paris (where I live). I rarely use it. I'd really love to see the proof that building and buying a new one, to replace the one that is in perfect working condition, is actually better for the environment. Especially given that the newer model which complies with the current pollution standards consumes the same amount of gas as mine (judging by the manufacturer's specs). Of course, this law is stupid because it only considers the year the vehicle was sold, but it's just one example of many why people may have a knee-jerk reaction to being forcibly pushed to adopt new things.
- eecc 3y ago
  Sorry but I’m not that sorry for your bike. https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-records-major-impacts https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-reco... This year we visited the Dolomites and the weather was insane. The place was full of old photo's of meters high snowfalls but all they got this year was a couple centimeters in early December. We need to change our habits, this pace is unsustainable https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-records-major-impacts https://wmo.int/news/media-centre/2023-shatters-climate-reco...
  - vladvasiliu 3y ago
    So you're saying that trashing a perfectly good bike and building another one, only to be ridden what? 10000 km at most a year, is a good deal for the environment? And consume the same amount of gas, so put out the same amount of CO2? My bike was an example where the general one-size-fits-all solution is actually counter-productive. This is exactly the issue I'm talking about. I'm all for preserving the environment, I really am. And I think that moving the immense majority of (sub-)urban commuters from ICE to EV is great and will make a difference. Or, even better: stop commuting if possible! Isn't the mantra "reduce, reuse, recycle", "in that order"? How are we reducing or even reusing here? But this whole "replace all ICE vehicles now" just screams of disguised "won't somebody think of the economy?"
    - natch 3y ago
      Electric is quieter, so many people you probably would never even notice or be aware of, who are out there seeking a peaceful direct experience of the mountains, will appreciate the absence of your motorcycle in that respect. Also you make a common mistake of motorcycle owners in equating the amount of gas consumed with the amount of pollution. Smaller engines are by far vastly more polluting per kilometer than larger ones. Which is saying something even worse than saying their per-litre pollution is bad since motorcycles get more kilometers per litre. In other words even with their better per-kilometer gas usage, they still pollute more per unit of distance travelled. That is truly bad, from a pollution perspective. It’s a mistake to think the small amount of gas used means there is less impact. So your motorcycle should be trashed, yes.

lagadu 3y ago

Not the OP but I have been to the Pyrinees and Dolomites in my Model 3 and was perfectly fine. Many, maybe even most of the small villages had at the very least a 50kw charger somewhere on them, often at a hotel or supermarket. I don't think I've ever been further than 100km from a fast charger.