5 ms·

In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). It is

In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). It is a very convenient place to live and people who want a to live in a house love suburbia because it is affordable, safe, and in general a nice place to live. People living in rural America have to drive a lot farther than suburbanites. Also, note that people who prefer to not own a car can choose to live in places with good public transit (mostly big cities like Chicago, New York, Washington DC, Boston, Philidelphia, etc.).

sgu999 3y ago
> All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.) Fair enough, but that list doesn't include the third places the parent commenter was referring to: a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc.
- tomnipotent 3y ago
  > a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc. All of that is included in the "etc." part.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    I'm glad to learn that American suburbs are all 15 mn cities... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city
    - hug 3y ago
      Human walking speed approaches 3 miles per hour. A 15 minute city is therefore somewhere all of these facilities are a bit under a mile away. Most places in the US are probably two- or three-hour-cities — which is still nothing to the average EV’s range.
      - sgu999 3y ago
        First line of the wikipedia page I linked: > The 15-minute city (FMC or 15mC[2][3][4][5][6][7]) is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute walk, bike ride, or public transit ride from any point in the city. Roughly 20mph on an electric bike, in 15mn I believe you do roughly 5 miles?
        vel0city 3y ago
        20mph is hauling it on a bicycle. A normal cruising speed on a bike is more like 12-15mph. So that's more like 3.75mi. But yes, for all the suburbs I've lived in I've had the choice of dozens+ of restaurants, a few grocers, various stores, office parks, and more within 5mi. There's definitely places where this isn't true but it's not like all suburbs take two miles to leave the pure houses neighborhood.
    - tomnipotent 3y ago
      You seem to like moving the goal posts. No one claimed that the average suburban "Main St" is going to compare to high-density urban planning, but that suburban shopping options generally offer choices for most daily shopping needs within a reasonable (1-8km) distance independent from the city hub they're next to.
      - sgu999 3y ago
        > No one claimed that the average suburban "Main St" is going to compare to high-density urban planning You did. Dense cities are struggling to implement the 15mn trip to any amenities. Yet you are claiming that everything is in a range of 8km from the average house in an American suburb, that roughly 15mn on an e-bike. >> a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc. > All of that is included in the "etc." part. Now who's moving the goal post?
        tomnipotent 3y ago
        You started this with a nonsense statement that suburban American's were somehow 15km away from the nearest shop, which you were corrected on. Then you decided to be pedantic about the reply so you nitpicked the fact the author didn't include restaurants or bars. Then when I corrected that, you decided to move the goal posts to suburbs being 15 minute cities. Now you've decided to triple-down rather than acknowledge maybe your understanding is flawed. > Yet you are claiming that everything is in a range of 8km No one said "everything", but "most shopping options". You don't seem actually interested on having an honest conversation rather than pushing a distorted view of American suburbs of which you don't seem to have any 1st hand experience.
    - trgn 3y ago
      In the conventional american city everything is 20 minutes away. Nothing is truly inconvenient, but nowhere has that glorious vibe of effortless living either. In the burbs, every errand is alright, but it's also low key demeaning.
    - quantumwannabe 3y ago
      Yes, they unironically are 15 minute cities. A typical suburbanite will never have to spend more than 15 minutes traveling for a routine errand. Just because you don’t like how they do it doesn’t mean that they don’t do it.
prmoustache 3y ago
> In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). Then why are people using cars so much if everything is at a walking distance?
- ben_w 3y ago
  Because the roads are dangerous to cross on foot, and the footpaths stop suddenly for no apparent reason. And there's no AC outside, which matters more in some parts of the USA than others (Davis (CA) and Salt Lake City are above my comfort threshold, from memory). For example, one time I stayed at the The Cupertino Hotel in CA and tried walking to One Infinite Loop, a junction which every sufficiently old iOS user will be familiar with because it's what Apple used to use as the icon for their Maps app before they relocated their HQ to the flying saucer campus. The junction looks like this, and was an awful experience as a pedestrian: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3350322,-122.0325183,3a,75y,168.35h,82.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_St0wIKh9q9OF6ZrtqKdsg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D_St0wIKh9q9OF6ZrtqKdsg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D154.34412%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3350322,-122.0325183,3a,75y,... This is of course highly situational and varies by location. NYC, despite its reputation, was a lot less scary to walk around.
  - prmoustache 3y ago
    Now the additionnal question is why don't you guys do anything to correct the problem?
    - ben_w 3y ago
      Me? Well, the Americans don't let me vote, what with being British and living in Berlin (the original, not any of the 26 places of the same name in the USA), so the best I can do is point out to any Americans who feel like listening that there are better ways to design cities than the ways they've grown up with, and that "15 minute cities" are not the dystopian conspiracy theories that some seem to fear they are.
chasd00 3y ago
> It (suburbia) is a very convenient place to live I just wanted to point out that this is missed on a lot of people. City planners in suburbs have come a long way, at least in DFW they have. I live in Oak Cliff which is about 3 miles S/SW of downtown Dallas. The northern suburbs of DFW such as Frisco are not the traditional boring/bland bedroom communities that get associated with suburbs. Well, there is that element but there are many good jobs, good restaurants/entertainment, and other amenities traditionally associated with city centers in the suburbs these days. I suggest spending some times in a growing a suburb with an open mind. If you're a city person it's not likely to amaze you but it's not that bad either.

sgu999 3y ago

> All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.) Fair enough, but that list doesn't include the third places the parent commenter was referring to: a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc.

tomnipotent 3y ago
> a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc. All of that is included in the "etc." part.
- sgu999 3y ago
  I'm glad to learn that American suburbs are all 15 mn cities... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/15-minute_city
  - hug 3y ago
    Human walking speed approaches 3 miles per hour. A 15 minute city is therefore somewhere all of these facilities are a bit under a mile away. Most places in the US are probably two- or three-hour-cities — which is still nothing to the average EV’s range.
    - sgu999 3y ago
      First line of the wikipedia page I linked: > The 15-minute city (FMC or 15mC[2][3][4][5][6][7]) is an urban planning concept in which most daily necessities and services, such as work, shopping, education, healthcare, and leisure can be easily reached by a 15-minute walk, bike ride, or public transit ride from any point in the city. Roughly 20mph on an electric bike, in 15mn I believe you do roughly 5 miles?
      - vel0city 3y ago
        20mph is hauling it on a bicycle. A normal cruising speed on a bike is more like 12-15mph. So that's more like 3.75mi. But yes, for all the suburbs I've lived in I've had the choice of dozens+ of restaurants, a few grocers, various stores, office parks, and more within 5mi. There's definitely places where this isn't true but it's not like all suburbs take two miles to leave the pure houses neighborhood.
  - tomnipotent 3y ago
    You seem to like moving the goal posts. No one claimed that the average suburban "Main St" is going to compare to high-density urban planning, but that suburban shopping options generally offer choices for most daily shopping needs within a reasonable (1-8km) distance independent from the city hub they're next to.
    - sgu999 3y ago
      > No one claimed that the average suburban "Main St" is going to compare to high-density urban planning You did. Dense cities are struggling to implement the 15mn trip to any amenities. Yet you are claiming that everything is in a range of 8km from the average house in an American suburb, that roughly 15mn on an e-bike. >> a choice of restaurants, bars, cafés, hotels, etc. > All of that is included in the "etc." part. Now who's moving the goal post?
      - tomnipotent 3y ago
        You started this with a nonsense statement that suburban American's were somehow 15km away from the nearest shop, which you were corrected on. Then you decided to be pedantic about the reply so you nitpicked the fact the author didn't include restaurants or bars. Then when I corrected that, you decided to move the goal posts to suburbs being 15 minute cities. Now you've decided to triple-down rather than acknowledge maybe your understanding is flawed. > Yet you are claiming that everything is in a range of 8km No one said "everything", but "most shopping options". You don't seem actually interested on having an honest conversation rather than pushing a distorted view of American suburbs of which you don't seem to have any 1st hand experience.
  - trgn 3y ago
    In the conventional american city everything is 20 minutes away. Nothing is truly inconvenient, but nowhere has that glorious vibe of effortless living either. In the burbs, every errand is alright, but it's also low key demeaning.
  - quantumwannabe 3y ago
    Yes, they unironically are 15 minute cities. A typical suburbanite will never have to spend more than 15 minutes traveling for a routine errand. Just because you don’t like how they do it doesn’t mean that they don’t do it.

prmoustache 3y ago

> In the suburban US, nothing is 15km away. All of the stores you typically go to are 0-5 miles way (grocery store, gas station, pharmacy, doctor, etc.). Then why are people using cars so much if everything is at a walking distance?

ben_w 3y ago
Because the roads are dangerous to cross on foot, and the footpaths stop suddenly for no apparent reason. And there's no AC outside, which matters more in some parts of the USA than others (Davis (CA) and Salt Lake City are above my comfort threshold, from memory). For example, one time I stayed at the The Cupertino Hotel in CA and tried walking to One Infinite Loop, a junction which every sufficiently old iOS user will be familiar with because it's what Apple used to use as the icon for their Maps app before they relocated their HQ to the flying saucer campus. The junction looks like this, and was an awful experience as a pedestrian: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3350322,-122.0325183,3a,75y,168.35h,82.72t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_St0wIKh9q9OF6ZrtqKdsg!2e0!6shttps:%2F%2Fstreetviewpixels-pa.googleapis.com%2Fv1%2Fthumbnail%3Fpanoid%3D_St0wIKh9q9OF6ZrtqKdsg%26cb_client%3Dmaps_sv.tactile.gps%26w%3D203%26h%3D100%26yaw%3D154.34412%26pitch%3D0%26thumbfov%3D100!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu https://www.google.com/maps/@37.3350322,-122.0325183,3a,75y,... This is of course highly situational and varies by location. NYC, despite its reputation, was a lot less scary to walk around.
- prmoustache 3y ago
  Now the additionnal question is why don't you guys do anything to correct the problem?
  - ben_w 3y ago
    Me? Well, the Americans don't let me vote, what with being British and living in Berlin (the original, not any of the 26 places of the same name in the USA), so the best I can do is point out to any Americans who feel like listening that there are better ways to design cities than the ways they've grown up with, and that "15 minute cities" are not the dystopian conspiracy theories that some seem to fear they are.

chasd00 3y ago

> It (suburbia) is a very convenient place to live I just wanted to point out that this is missed on a lot of people. City planners in suburbs have come a long way, at least in DFW they have. I live in Oak Cliff which is about 3 miles S/SW of downtown Dallas. The northern suburbs of DFW such as Frisco are not the traditional boring/bland bedroom communities that get associated with suburbs. Well, there is that element but there are many good jobs, good restaurants/entertainment, and other amenities traditionally associated with city centers in the suburbs these days. I suggest spending some times in a growing a suburb with an open mind. If you're a city person it's not likely to amaze you but it's not that bad either.