7 ms·

How can you have peace of mind whilst burning the only inhabitable planet for life as we know it?

lolive 3y ago
It brings peace of mind, it seems.
sgu999 3y ago
If you've been raised in a deeply individualistic culture, the collective well-being doesn't affect your peace of mind. And if you can afford to choose to own an EV, you and your descendants will likely be amongst the least impacted by climate change, migrations, and supply chain disruptions.
- skriticos2 3y ago
  Hah, so true. If you give up on your ICE now in one of the western democracies, it will be sold as a used car in your country first and continue being driven around by someone poorer, then eventually be shipped to Asia and be driven around there by even poorer people until it eventually goes to Africa and and be driven until it finally gives out. Getting a new EV and dumping the ICE won't change much on that in the short term. So what I want to say is, that poor people have better things to worry about than EVs and sustainability, like getting through the day with food on their plate and maybe a roof over their head. While they will be the most impacted, they can afford to care about it the least. Also, EVs right now just shift the problem around until we manage to produce electricity from renewable sources, which is still some way off, especially in the poor places that will drive the least efficient ICEs while they last.
  - sgu999 3y ago
    In France we have a "bonus for scrapyard" to avoid that [1]. You get an extra discount if you prove that the old car you're replacing is going to be removed from the road. I don't think it's well thought through given how broken the rating of cars is, but that's a step in the right direction I guess. > Also, EVs right now just shift the problem around until we manage to produce electricity from renewable sources Until we manage to actually reduce the amount of cars. The solution for transportation is quite clearly less and smaller vehicles, all EVs. [1] https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/prime-conversion https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/prime-conversion
    - carlosjobim 3y ago
      If you are broke you can buy a normal car for $1000 or less, that can get you to work and back home. You can't afford to live where you can take public transit or a bicycle to work. Electric is simply not an option for the majority of people, it is a luxury. Until a worker can get an electric car for a couple of thousands, no scrapyard bonus will make any difference whatsoever. It's just more tax money subsidies for rich people. >Until we manage to actually reduce the amount of cars. The solution for transportation is quite clearly less and smaller vehicles, all EVs. That's called a motorcycle, although they're not electric. There's a few hundred million of them already in the world, and greater adaption of motorcycles where possible would be incredible for reduced traffic and reduced pollution. On top of that they are cheap, fuel efficient and fun to ride. But nobody will listen to the solution, because there is too much money to be made from the problem.
      - sgu999 3y ago
        > Electric is simply not an option for the majority of people, it is a luxury. Until a worker can get an electric car for a couple of thousands, no scrapyard bonus will make any difference whatsoever. It's just more tax money subsidies for rich people. Note that "the majority of people" don't have a car, they have 2-wheeled vehicle at best. [1] I'm not conflating "electric vehicles" with "electric cars". > That's called a motorcycle, although they're not electric. No shit. > There's a few hundred million of them already in the world, and greater adaption of motorcycles where possible would be incredible for reduced traffic and reduced pollution. On top of that they are cheap, fuel efficient and fun to ride. But nobody will listen to the solution, because there is a too much money to be made from the problem. Fully agree, even though the maximum amount of public transportation is in my opinion desirable in areas that permit it. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/16/car-bike-...
        carlosjobim 3y ago
        > I'm not conflating "electric vehicles" with "electric cars". My mistake! To add a bit more to the discussion. Larger adaption of motorcycles instead of cars in cities can also reduce the pollution from public transport. Nothing spews more exhaust than a bus stuck in traffic. Motorcycles are also a good complement to public transit, since you can get to a station or terminal that is far away on your motorcycle and easily park there. Car parking needs much more space. In many cases it is better to get to a terminal that has express public transport by your own means, so that you don't have to live by the local bus schedule and wait for the slow route to the terminal.
  - natch 3y ago
    EVs powered even by coal pollute less than gas cars, due to superior drivetrain efficiency. So this “long tailpipe” concept you allude to is a myth.
- JohnFen 3y ago
  > If you've been raised in a deeply individualistic culture, the collective well-being doesn't affect your peace of mind. I don't know about that. It certainly affects mine. I may not be representative of the average person in my culture, but I was a product of my culture regardless.
- natch 3y ago
  As an aside, you can get a Model 3 for less than a Toyota Corolla now in many states so the “if you can afford an EV” perspective is starting to lose its edge. However I still agree with your overall point.
angrythrowaway1 3y ago
[flagged]
- mavhc 3y ago
  How does a lithium mine cause the deaths of billions of people?
- theshrike79 3y ago
  The point is that people are VERY worried about the working conditions of alleged children in lithium mines and battery recycling. (Child labour is used in _illegal_ mines, batteries can be recycled with 95% efficiency) All the while the same people drive ICE vehicles and contribute to the insane amount of environmental destruction caused by oil drilling and transportation. But they don't go commenting on every new ICE vehicle article saying "But what about the Exxon Valdez, what about the birds covered in oil?"
LtWorf 3y ago
If you're not using a train you're burning the only inhabitable planet as well. So stop feeling superior to others while doing the same crap they all do.
red75prime 3y ago
Tragedy of the commons. Your decision to abandon ICE car will not change anything in the grand scheme of things besides inconveniencing you so long as other people are allowed to use ICE cars and a myriad of other fossil fuel based conveniences.
- ta1243 3y ago
  Until enough people abandon them and gas stations stop selling gas, and range anxiety becomes a thing for ICE vehicles.

It brings peace of mind, it seems.

If you've been raised in a deeply individualistic culture, the collective well-being doesn't affect your peace of mind. And if you can afford to choose to own an EV, you and your descendants will likely be amongst the least impacted by climate change, migrations, and supply chain disruptions.

skriticos2 3y ago
Hah, so true. If you give up on your ICE now in one of the western democracies, it will be sold as a used car in your country first and continue being driven around by someone poorer, then eventually be shipped to Asia and be driven around there by even poorer people until it eventually goes to Africa and and be driven until it finally gives out. Getting a new EV and dumping the ICE won't change much on that in the short term. So what I want to say is, that poor people have better things to worry about than EVs and sustainability, like getting through the day with food on their plate and maybe a roof over their head. While they will be the most impacted, they can afford to care about it the least. Also, EVs right now just shift the problem around until we manage to produce electricity from renewable sources, which is still some way off, especially in the poor places that will drive the least efficient ICEs while they last.
- sgu999 3y ago
  In France we have a "bonus for scrapyard" to avoid that [1]. You get an extra discount if you prove that the old car you're replacing is going to be removed from the road. I don't think it's well thought through given how broken the rating of cars is, but that's a step in the right direction I guess. > Also, EVs right now just shift the problem around until we manage to produce electricity from renewable sources Until we manage to actually reduce the amount of cars. The solution for transportation is quite clearly less and smaller vehicles, all EVs. [1] https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/prime-conversion https://www.economie.gouv.fr/particuliers/prime-conversion
  - carlosjobim 3y ago
    If you are broke you can buy a normal car for $1000 or less, that can get you to work and back home. You can't afford to live where you can take public transit or a bicycle to work. Electric is simply not an option for the majority of people, it is a luxury. Until a worker can get an electric car for a couple of thousands, no scrapyard bonus will make any difference whatsoever. It's just more tax money subsidies for rich people. >Until we manage to actually reduce the amount of cars. The solution for transportation is quite clearly less and smaller vehicles, all EVs. That's called a motorcycle, although they're not electric. There's a few hundred million of them already in the world, and greater adaption of motorcycles where possible would be incredible for reduced traffic and reduced pollution. On top of that they are cheap, fuel efficient and fun to ride. But nobody will listen to the solution, because there is too much money to be made from the problem.
    - sgu999 3y ago
      > Electric is simply not an option for the majority of people, it is a luxury. Until a worker can get an electric car for a couple of thousands, no scrapyard bonus will make any difference whatsoever. It's just more tax money subsidies for rich people. Note that "the majority of people" don't have a car, they have 2-wheeled vehicle at best. [1] I'm not conflating "electric vehicles" with "electric cars". > That's called a motorcycle, although they're not electric. No shit. > There's a few hundred million of them already in the world, and greater adaption of motorcycles where possible would be incredible for reduced traffic and reduced pollution. On top of that they are cheap, fuel efficient and fun to ride. But nobody will listen to the solution, because there is a too much money to be made from the problem. Fully agree, even though the maximum amount of public transportation is in my opinion desirable in areas that permit it. [1] https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/16/car-bike-or-motorcycle-depends-on-where-you-live/ https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2015/04/16/car-bike-...
      - carlosjobim 3y ago
        > I'm not conflating "electric vehicles" with "electric cars". My mistake! To add a bit more to the discussion. Larger adaption of motorcycles instead of cars in cities can also reduce the pollution from public transport. Nothing spews more exhaust than a bus stuck in traffic. Motorcycles are also a good complement to public transit, since you can get to a station or terminal that is far away on your motorcycle and easily park there. Car parking needs much more space. In many cases it is better to get to a terminal that has express public transport by your own means, so that you don't have to live by the local bus schedule and wait for the slow route to the terminal.
- natch 3y ago
  EVs powered even by coal pollute less than gas cars, due to superior drivetrain efficiency. So this “long tailpipe” concept you allude to is a myth.
JohnFen 3y ago
> If you've been raised in a deeply individualistic culture, the collective well-being doesn't affect your peace of mind. I don't know about that. It certainly affects mine. I may not be representative of the average person in my culture, but I was a product of my culture regardless.
natch 3y ago
As an aside, you can get a Model 3 for less than a Toyota Corolla now in many states so the “if you can afford an EV” perspective is starting to lose its edge. However I still agree with your overall point.

angrythrowaway1 3y ago

[flagged]

mavhc 3y ago
How does a lithium mine cause the deaths of billions of people?
theshrike79 3y ago
The point is that people are VERY worried about the working conditions of alleged children in lithium mines and battery recycling. (Child labour is used in _illegal_ mines, batteries can be recycled with 95% efficiency) All the while the same people drive ICE vehicles and contribute to the insane amount of environmental destruction caused by oil drilling and transportation. But they don't go commenting on every new ICE vehicle article saying "But what about the Exxon Valdez, what about the birds covered in oil?"

LtWorf 3y ago

If you're not using a train you're burning the only inhabitable planet as well. So stop feeling superior to others while doing the same crap they all do.

red75prime 3y ago

Tragedy of the commons. Your decision to abandon ICE car will not change anything in the grand scheme of things besides inconveniencing you so long as other people are allowed to use ICE cars and a myriad of other fossil fuel based conveniences.

ta1243 3y ago
Until enough people abandon them and gas stations stop selling gas, and range anxiety becomes a thing for ICE vehicles.