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>Tesla, BYD, and others don't have these issues because they built their EV manufacturing from scratch and have been optimizing how that works for the last ten

>Tesla, BYD, and others don't have these issues because they built their EV manufacturing from scratch and have been optimizing how that works for the last ten years. The fact that Tesla and BYD don't have large, entrenched, auto unions to deal with is the biggest factor in keeping costs low.

callalex 3y ago
Where can I learn more about this?
- jillesvangurp 3y ago
  Try Google. Refer to quarterly reports by mentioned companies. There's also some fun comments from the likes of CEOs of VW and other companies commenting on the undisputed lead in manufacturing that Tesla has over them. VW actually used this as a reason to motivate some recent layoff rounds. There are lots of other reports.
  - piva00 3y ago
    I Googled and didn't find any references making a correlation/causation between auto unions and Tesla/BYD. That's a poster's opinion, would love to see sources for basing that opinion.
    - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
      It's a fact that the large automaker unions like UAW are not present in Tesla operations. It's also a fact that BYD has no North American operations and obviously UAW doesn't operate in China. Do you think the presence of UAW makes a car manufacturer more or less cost efficient?
      - afavour 3y ago
        You’re describing correlation, not causation.
        JacobThreeThree 3y ago
        The parent asked for a correlation.
      - piva00 3y ago
        Yes, they are facts but I'd like to see something with more substance than just an opinion based on implications.
        JacobThreeThree 3y ago
        From Wikipedia - Tesla is paying below-industry salaries. >Despite allegations of high injury rates, long hours, and below-industry pay, efforts to unionize the workforce have been largely unsuccessful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions Analysis of recent UAW strike. >This is all "a potential nightmare situation for GM and Ford," Wedbush analyst Dan Ives said in a note to clients this month. Any threat to supply would also inevitably diminish year-end production and inventory, chipping away at holiday season deals. >Tesla, which does not use union labor, is situated to benefit from any work stoppage at competitors, especially at a time when the industry is pushing harder into electric vehicles, Ives said. >"Tesla does not face similar issues which speaks to the complexity both GM and Ford face going up against the EV leader Tesla, while trying to satisfy rising union demands," Ives said. "If a strike happens then ultimately production and the EV roadmap could be pushed out into 2024 and delays would be on the horizon at this crucial period for GM, Ford, and Stellantis." https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare-scenario-great-news-tesla-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare...
oblio 3y ago
Sure, if you don't care about your fellow man, everything can be cheap. That's how we got Nike, H&M, C&A, etc.
- deleted 3y ago
  [deleted]
gibolt 3y ago
GM produced the first modern EV, then recalled and scrapped them all. Nissan was far ahead of Tesla (on sales) with the Leaf. Both could have easily won the race if they had tried, with the massive financial instruments they had availability, compared to tiny Tesla. Instead, they kept them as compliance cars because they 'had' to and continued to push for larger gas guzzling models with more profit.
GiorgioG 3y ago
I'm not pro-union, but that's the dumbest thing I've heard this year.
- JacobThreeThree 3y ago
  I guess the financial analysts saying similar things are also dumb? >This is all "a potential nightmare situation for GM and Ford," Wedbush analyst Dan Ives said in a note to clients this month. Any threat to supply would also inevitably diminish year-end production and inventory, chipping away at holiday season deals. >Tesla, which does not use union labor, is situated to benefit from any work stoppage at competitors, especially at a time when the industry is pushing harder into electric vehicles, Ives said. >"Tesla does not face similar issues which speaks to the complexity both GM and Ford face going up against the EV leader Tesla, while trying to satisfy rising union demands," Ives said. "If a strike happens then ultimately production and the EV roadmap could be pushed out into 2024 and delays would be on the horizon at this crucial period for GM, Ford, and Stellantis." https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare-scenario-great-news-tesla-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare...

callalex 3y ago

Where can I learn more about this?

jillesvangurp 3y ago
Try Google. Refer to quarterly reports by mentioned companies. There's also some fun comments from the likes of CEOs of VW and other companies commenting on the undisputed lead in manufacturing that Tesla has over them. VW actually used this as a reason to motivate some recent layoff rounds. There are lots of other reports.
- piva00 3y ago
  I Googled and didn't find any references making a correlation/causation between auto unions and Tesla/BYD. That's a poster's opinion, would love to see sources for basing that opinion.
  - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
    It's a fact that the large automaker unions like UAW are not present in Tesla operations. It's also a fact that BYD has no North American operations and obviously UAW doesn't operate in China. Do you think the presence of UAW makes a car manufacturer more or less cost efficient?
    - afavour 3y ago
      You’re describing correlation, not causation.
      - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
        The parent asked for a correlation.
    - piva00 3y ago
      Yes, they are facts but I'd like to see something with more substance than just an opinion based on implications.
      - JacobThreeThree 3y ago
        From Wikipedia - Tesla is paying below-industry salaries. >Despite allegations of high injury rates, long hours, and below-industry pay, efforts to unionize the workforce have been largely unsuccessful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_and_unions Analysis of recent UAW strike. >This is all "a potential nightmare situation for GM and Ford," Wedbush analyst Dan Ives said in a note to clients this month. Any threat to supply would also inevitably diminish year-end production and inventory, chipping away at holiday season deals. >Tesla, which does not use union labor, is situated to benefit from any work stoppage at competitors, especially at a time when the industry is pushing harder into electric vehicles, Ives said. >"Tesla does not face similar issues which speaks to the complexity both GM and Ford face going up against the EV leader Tesla, while trying to satisfy rising union demands," Ives said. "If a strike happens then ultimately production and the EV roadmap could be pushed out into 2024 and delays would be on the horizon at this crucial period for GM, Ford, and Stellantis." https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare-scenario-great-news-tesla-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare...

oblio 3y ago

Sure, if you don't care about your fellow man, everything can be cheap. That's how we got Nike, H&M, C&A, etc.

deleted 3y ago
[deleted]

gibolt 3y ago

GM produced the first modern EV, then recalled and scrapped them all. Nissan was far ahead of Tesla (on sales) with the Leaf. Both could have easily won the race if they had tried, with the massive financial instruments they had availability, compared to tiny Tesla. Instead, they kept them as compliance cars because they 'had' to and continued to push for larger gas guzzling models with more profit.

GiorgioG 3y ago

I'm not pro-union, but that's the dumbest thing I've heard this year.

JacobThreeThree 3y ago
I guess the financial analysts saying similar things are also dumb? >This is all "a potential nightmare situation for GM and Ford," Wedbush analyst Dan Ives said in a note to clients this month. Any threat to supply would also inevitably diminish year-end production and inventory, chipping away at holiday season deals. >Tesla, which does not use union labor, is situated to benefit from any work stoppage at competitors, especially at a time when the industry is pushing harder into electric vehicles, Ives said. >"Tesla does not face similar issues which speaks to the complexity both GM and Ford face going up against the EV leader Tesla, while trying to satisfy rising union demands," Ives said. "If a strike happens then ultimately production and the EV roadmap could be pushed out into 2024 and delays would be on the horizon at this crucial period for GM, Ford, and Stellantis." https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare-scenario-great-news-tesla-2023-9 https://www.businessinsider.com/uaw-strike-gm-ford-nightmare...