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This math doesn't make sense. You would only have to use your dining room 2-3 times a year to come out ahead; whereas most people likely host in their dining ro

This math doesn't make sense. You would only have to use your dining room 2-3 times a year to come out ahead; whereas most people likely host in their dining rooms 12 - 48 times per years. Even at once a month, over 10 years, you aren't going to find a rental place for $83. From this post, I'm not sure if you have underpriced dining rooms are exceedingly cheap, or if you are unaware how much a rental place actually costs. My parents have a rather nice dining room that they host every major holiday in and they still spent more than 10k in the last ~2 years alone for family gatherings they did away from home. Edit: Reading through the thread I've come away with the feeling most people are just talking past each other with no frame of reference for how the other lives. There are people it seems coming from cultures centered on weekly/monthly gatherings that are bewildered that someone would consider a dining room superflous.

lukas099 3y ago
I just looked up how much it would be to rent at the closest park to my house (and yes alcohol is allowed). It starts at $25/hour and goes up to $50/hour for a grand ballroom holding 120 people.
- nemothekid 3y ago
  Yeah, I've realized that culture just isn't translating. I think dinner party was the wrong word to use because it has primed the conversation where people are imaging the only use for a dinner room is hosting an evening ball. I know a group, where 8 people + a dungeon master meet weekly/bi-weekly to play DnD. It's a little on the larger side but this would be "dinner" party size. Of course they bring food and drinks as well. It would be a little ridiculous (and expensive) for them to rent a grand ballroom every weekend. Similarly there are plenty of people I know who look forward to college football and hold similarly sized game days with themselves and significant others. Again nothing special, just 6-12 people ultimately watching tv. Food is brought, and drinks are had, but they aren't having a "rager". Renting a park every weekend to watch college football every weekend would be expensive. The fact that you would think to rent a park for these kind of things just leads me to believe we are talking past each other. We are missing significant cultural context on the utilities of these rooms. If you don't watch sports or don't play DnD I can see how the idea of needing a dining room is superfluous. And most people would't throw away their friend groups in order to invest $10k on the S&P. At that point, why even have the money?
  - lukas099 3y ago
    > I know a group, where 8 people + a dungeon master meet weekly/bi-weekly to play DnD. The (bi)weekly social engagement that is an important part of their social life is not an edge case though.
  - ghaff 3y ago
    It’s not like you even need a large grand dining room. My parents had one and used it fairly regularly for parties. I don’t—the smaller one I had got opened up to the kitchen during a remodel. I do have a couple rooms that can accommodate 8 or so people each and I use them when I have guests. Also outdoor space in the summer. But I use those spaces for other things as well.
  - epolanski 3y ago
    You don't need a dining room for any of the activities you describe. I have s living room with kitchen which is 24 square meters, definitely not big, contains the kitchen, sofas, tables and I hosted 10 people in it.
NullPrefix 3y ago
If you have to rent and pay money, then you are forced to evaluate if you actually need that. The end goal is to prevent you from doing it, even infrequently
TaylorAlexander 3y ago
> most people likely host in their dining rooms 12 - 48 times per year Most people? I haven’t hosted any party in years.
- lukas099 3y ago
  Yeah, even the 'party people' I know only had 3-4 a year. And just having one or two people didn't entail 'bringing out the fine china' and using the dining room.
  - strix_varius 3y ago
    Honestly this is kind of sad to me. One of my greatest joys is the frequent gatherings of our friend groups... Sometimes even tea with "fancy china."
    - lukas099 3y ago
      It's not that I didn't have frequent gatherings, it's that they were at different places and involved things other than candlelight dinners.
      - strix_varius 3y ago
        The limitations of "I only hang out with friends in businesses" is still sad to me. It means: No offering your spare bedroom when someone drinks too much, no communal potlucks, no gatherings when businesses are closed... Where you invest your resources speaks volumes about your priorities in life.
        TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        My friends have potlucks at at public parks/beaches. For me I often gather at the local hackerspace which is a collective that I’m a member of. I’m joining another collective that’s a tiny farm and they have potlucks. Theres “bike party” where a bunch of rowdy people meet in the streets, ride bikes for 5 miles or so with music blaring out of special speaker filled bike trailers and we take over both lanes of traffic until we ride to a selected location to throw a dance party. And I don’t have a spare bedroom. Also most of my friend group doesn’t drink.
lukas099 3y ago
You're forgetting opportunity cost. The $10k is not stuffed in your mattress, you can do stuff with it. You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal). Let alone investing in stock ETFs.
- d1sxeyes 3y ago
  Yes but you can recoup the entirety of what you put in when you sell your house (normally with a healthy margin).
- mlyle 3y ago
  > You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal) Not really, because your principal loses value because of inflation. If you buy that $10k CD, you get $500 out per year; you pay a couple hundred bucks of that in taxes, leaving $300. If inflation sticks around 3.2%, you'll be losing $20/year before you spend anything.
  - lukas099 3y ago
    You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year, you would leave it invested and spend $500 that you already have liquid from elsewhere. But it's beside the point. The point is that opportunity costs must be accounted for.
    - mlyle 3y ago
      > You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year, You still generally owe taxes as the interest is accrued. So, the situation doesn't change-- that CD loses money unless your tax rate is low. Even with compounded interest not subject to taxation until withdrawal, it's not much better. Even in a ridiculous case with 30 years, 10000 * (1.05^30) = $43220 ; minus .4 * 33220 = $29932; 29932 / (1.032^30) = $11401-- or about .4% real return per year. Opportunity costs beyond inflation make the picture even more ridiculous.
      - 3y ago
pinkgolem 3y ago
To be fair, 20k for any sizable dining room seems also rather cheap.. I would have assumed with current building cost to be more in the 40 to 50k area At least in areas where space matters...
mrjin 3y ago
Not only that, those people simply cannot recognize the costs associated with those hustles. Imagine the scenario: your friends are visiting you, and you are telling them I'm going to book a function room...
- lukas099 3y ago
  Actually it's the opposite. The costs people can't recognize are the massive opportunity costs of having rooms that they don't use 99% of the time. (DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about the people who do use them! Don't bring up your cousin Bob who hosts events all the time and think that you are refuting me.) This is because people look at the utility of the room when it is used, but forget to multiply that by the frequency of its use. And yes, sometimes a dining room can surprisingly come in handy for something that comes up. However, this is true of almost any use you can think of for the room. I would venture to say that most people who have dining rooms, who don't routinely host dinners, would be better served making it a video game room, or an aquarium, or a giant closet, or a room for whatever hobby they actually do. Yet across America, millions of dining rooms sit empty for months at a spread, screaming to be made into something that more accurately reflects the lifestyles of their owners.
  - scubazealous 3y ago
    >Yet across America, millions of dining rooms sit empty for months at a spread, screaming to be made into something that more accurately reflects the lifestyles of their owners. Every day, my money sits in my bank account screaming to be spent on something intangible...
  - ghaff 3y ago
    I guess I question of prevalence of these large dining rooms that are only used for large dinner parties a few times a year and gather dust unused the rest of the time as opposed to somewhere the owners eat day to day and possibly use the surface for various hobbies.
    - lukas099 3y ago

lukas099 3y ago

I just looked up how much it would be to rent at the closest park to my house (and yes alcohol is allowed). It starts at $25/hour and goes up to $50/hour for a grand ballroom holding 120 people.

nemothekid 3y ago
Yeah, I've realized that culture just isn't translating. I think dinner party was the wrong word to use because it has primed the conversation where people are imaging the only use for a dinner room is hosting an evening ball. I know a group, where 8 people + a dungeon master meet weekly/bi-weekly to play DnD. It's a little on the larger side but this would be "dinner" party size. Of course they bring food and drinks as well. It would be a little ridiculous (and expensive) for them to rent a grand ballroom every weekend. Similarly there are plenty of people I know who look forward to college football and hold similarly sized game days with themselves and significant others. Again nothing special, just 6-12 people ultimately watching tv. Food is brought, and drinks are had, but they aren't having a "rager". Renting a park every weekend to watch college football every weekend would be expensive. The fact that you would think to rent a park for these kind of things just leads me to believe we are talking past each other. We are missing significant cultural context on the utilities of these rooms. If you don't watch sports or don't play DnD I can see how the idea of needing a dining room is superfluous. And most people would't throw away their friend groups in order to invest $10k on the S&P. At that point, why even have the money?
- lukas099 3y ago
  > I know a group, where 8 people + a dungeon master meet weekly/bi-weekly to play DnD. The (bi)weekly social engagement that is an important part of their social life is not an edge case though.
- ghaff 3y ago
  It’s not like you even need a large grand dining room. My parents had one and used it fairly regularly for parties. I don’t—the smaller one I had got opened up to the kitchen during a remodel. I do have a couple rooms that can accommodate 8 or so people each and I use them when I have guests. Also outdoor space in the summer. But I use those spaces for other things as well.
- epolanski 3y ago
  You don't need a dining room for any of the activities you describe. I have s living room with kitchen which is 24 square meters, definitely not big, contains the kitchen, sofas, tables and I hosted 10 people in it.

NullPrefix 3y ago

If you have to rent and pay money, then you are forced to evaluate if you actually need that. The end goal is to prevent you from doing it, even infrequently

TaylorAlexander 3y ago

> most people likely host in their dining rooms 12 - 48 times per year Most people? I haven’t hosted any party in years.

lukas099 3y ago
Yeah, even the 'party people' I know only had 3-4 a year. And just having one or two people didn't entail 'bringing out the fine china' and using the dining room.
- strix_varius 3y ago
  Honestly this is kind of sad to me. One of my greatest joys is the frequent gatherings of our friend groups... Sometimes even tea with "fancy china."
  - lukas099 3y ago
    It's not that I didn't have frequent gatherings, it's that they were at different places and involved things other than candlelight dinners.
    - strix_varius 3y ago
      The limitations of "I only hang out with friends in businesses" is still sad to me. It means: No offering your spare bedroom when someone drinks too much, no communal potlucks, no gatherings when businesses are closed... Where you invest your resources speaks volumes about your priorities in life.
      - TaylorAlexander 3y ago
        My friends have potlucks at at public parks/beaches. For me I often gather at the local hackerspace which is a collective that I’m a member of. I’m joining another collective that’s a tiny farm and they have potlucks. Theres “bike party” where a bunch of rowdy people meet in the streets, ride bikes for 5 miles or so with music blaring out of special speaker filled bike trailers and we take over both lanes of traffic until we ride to a selected location to throw a dance party. And I don’t have a spare bedroom. Also most of my friend group doesn’t drink.

lukas099 3y ago

You're forgetting opportunity cost. The $10k is not stuffed in your mattress, you can do stuff with it. You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal). Let alone investing in stock ETFs.

d1sxeyes 3y ago
Yes but you can recoup the entirety of what you put in when you sell your house (normally with a healthy margin).
mlyle 3y ago
> You can buy CDs that return over 5% APY right now (giving you a $500/year budget without even touching your principal) Not really, because your principal loses value because of inflation. If you buy that $10k CD, you get $500 out per year; you pay a couple hundred bucks of that in taxes, leaving $300. If inflation sticks around 3.2%, you'll be losing $20/year before you spend anything.
- lukas099 3y ago
  You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year, you would leave it invested and spend $500 that you already have liquid from elsewhere. But it's beside the point. The point is that opportunity costs must be accounted for.
  - mlyle 3y ago
    > You wouldn't withdraw $500 per year, You still generally owe taxes as the interest is accrued. So, the situation doesn't change-- that CD loses money unless your tax rate is low. Even with compounded interest not subject to taxation until withdrawal, it's not much better. Even in a ridiculous case with 30 years, 10000 * (1.05^30) = $43220 ; minus .4 * 33220 = $29932; 29932 / (1.032^30) = $11401-- or about .4% real return per year. Opportunity costs beyond inflation make the picture even more ridiculous.
    - 3y ago

pinkgolem 3y ago

To be fair, 20k for any sizable dining room seems also rather cheap.. I would have assumed with current building cost to be more in the 40 to 50k area At least in areas where space matters...

mrjin 3y ago

Not only that, those people simply cannot recognize the costs associated with those hustles. Imagine the scenario: your friends are visiting you, and you are telling them I'm going to book a function room...

lukas099 3y ago
Actually it's the opposite. The costs people can't recognize are the massive opportunity costs of having rooms that they don't use 99% of the time. (DISCLAIMER: I am not talking about the people who do use them! Don't bring up your cousin Bob who hosts events all the time and think that you are refuting me.) This is because people look at the utility of the room when it is used, but forget to multiply that by the frequency of its use. And yes, sometimes a dining room can surprisingly come in handy for something that comes up. However, this is true of almost any use you can think of for the room. I would venture to say that most people who have dining rooms, who don't routinely host dinners, would be better served making it a video game room, or an aquarium, or a giant closet, or a room for whatever hobby they actually do. Yet across America, millions of dining rooms sit empty for months at a spread, screaming to be made into something that more accurately reflects the lifestyles of their owners.
- scubazealous 3y ago
  >Yet across America, millions of dining rooms sit empty for months at a spread, screaming to be made into something that more accurately reflects the lifestyles of their owners. Every day, my money sits in my bank account screaming to be spent on something intangible...
- ghaff 3y ago
  I guess I question of prevalence of these large dining rooms that are only used for large dinner parties a few times a year and gather dust unused the rest of the time as opposed to somewhere the owners eat day to day and possibly use the surface for various hobbies.
  - lukas099 3y ago