4 ms·

Can you name two of the "too many things" that are "too unsafe" about EVs?

sokoloff 3y ago
I'm not GP, but the towing capacities of most EVs are pretty abysmal (in both weight and range), which is a factor in our selection. Finding one that can tow even 3000 lbs is uncommon and 6000 lbs or more puts you into the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm in EVs ($$$). Or any-old <$20K used half-ton or mid-size SUV can tow that all day long.
- SEJeff 3y ago
  The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender.
  - itsoktocry 3y ago
    >The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender. Let's wait until we actually get some real world towing figures, shall we? Isn't Tesla currently involved in a scandal to cover up exaggerated range claims? https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-ba...
  - _ea1k 3y ago
    That counts as being in the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm.
jandrewrogers 3y ago
Sure. You can be stranded in the middle of nowhere because a road is closed for many hours or days due to inclement weather or an accident and the detour is 100-200km beyond anticipated, with no charging possibility in between. Some parts of the mountain west have 200km between exits. Has happened to me multiple times. In some places and some times of the year, getting stranded legitimately risks exposure to the elements. You can find a road impassable because EVs almost universally have poor ground clearance. If a road is closed due to conditions, per the above, the alternatives that are remotely reasonable in terms of distance may require high ground clearance to safely traverse. Again, I have been able to circumvent road closures for various reasons because I had a high-clearance vehicle. There are parts of the US where I will not drive without one. Many years ago, I would routinely rescue people out of the Sierra Nevada in winter that had foolishly taken their (ICE) SUV on unplowed roads they were not equipped to traverse. You can die from exposure to the elements in that country, both winter and summer. An EV is much, much more poorly equipped for these types of environments. They were lucky I trawled for people on those roads (it was a hobby), they may not have been found for days. tl;dr: high ground clearance and robust reliable range are serious safety features in the mountain west. Lack of it may find you stranded for days in difficult survival environments. Same reason I also carry ample water when driving through the same areas, just in case.
- SEJeff 3y ago
  > You can find a road impassable because EVs almost universally have poor ground clearance. Define: "poor ground clearance" Tesla Model 3: 5.2" Tesla Model S: 5-7" (in has a manually adjustable pneumatic suspension) Ford F150: 8-9.5" You can get bigger wheels for bigger clearances and you can also obviously put snow chains on Teslas as well. As of September 2023, 11.05% of new vehicle registrations in Colorado were electric. It has a lot of both mountains and snow. It depends on the specific model and how cold, but a Tesla generally speaking can keep the heat on for ~72 hours or so if it is not moving in the cold. I lived in Chicago and survived three polar vortexes (the worst was -22F in front of my house) and my Tesla did just fine.
  - jandrewrogers 3y ago
    You are confused if you conflate chains with ground clearance. They are not fungible. If your sole frame of reference is “snow” and cold weather then you don’t understand the problem. 5 inches of ground clearance is a joke in many areas. There is a reason people religiously buy Subarus with almost 9 inches of ground clearance. It isn’t negotiable if you actually understand the problem. My minimum requirement for ground clearance for many years, and based on real-world experience, is 8 inches. I’ve owned vehicles with less and more, and used all in less than ideal circumstances re: ground clearance. The last time I had a vehicle with ground clearance as low as a Tesla, it wasn’t great for the vehicle, and I have a lot of experience navigating those conditions to minimize damage. Just because it never has applied to you, clearly, doesn’t mean it isn’t a real problem.
    - SEJeff 3y ago
      Chains are for snow. They’ve got nothing to do with clearance. You mentioned unplowed roads. If that also includes mountains you tend to use chain. Get over yourself buddy. The level of arrogance is astounding.
      - blahedo 3y ago
        > Chains are for snow. They’ve got nothing to do with clearance. Yes, and you were the one who mentioned chains in response to clearance issues. GP was asked to provide examples, and did. That's not arrogance.

I'm not GP, but the towing capacities of most EVs are pretty abysmal (in both weight and range), which is a factor in our selection. Finding one that can tow even 3000 lbs is uncommon and 6000 lbs or more puts you into the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm in EVs ($$$). Or any-old <$20K used half-ton or mid-size SUV can tow that all day long.

SEJeff 3y ago
The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender.
- itsoktocry 3y ago
  >The Dual motor Cybertruck can tow 11,000 lbs. It also has a max range of up to 470 miles if you get the range extender. Let's wait until we actually get some real world towing figures, shall we? Isn't Tesla currently involved in a scandal to cover up exaggerated range claims? https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-batteries-range/ https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/tesla-ba...
- _ea1k 3y ago
  That counts as being in the Rivian/Lightning/Hummer realm.

jandrewrogers 3y ago

Sure. You can be stranded in the middle of nowhere because a road is closed for many hours or days due to inclement weather or an accident and the detour is 100-200km beyond anticipated, with no charging possibility in between. Some parts of the mountain west have 200km between exits. Has happened to me multiple times. In some places and some times of the year, getting stranded legitimately risks exposure to the elements. You can find a road impassable because EVs almost universally have poor ground clearance. If a road is closed due to conditions, per the above, the alternatives that are remotely reasonable in terms of distance may require high ground clearance to safely traverse. Again, I have been able to circumvent road closures for various reasons because I had a high-clearance vehicle. There are parts of the US where I will not drive without one. Many years ago, I would routinely rescue people out of the Sierra Nevada in winter that had foolishly taken their (ICE) SUV on unplowed roads they were not equipped to traverse. You can die from exposure to the elements in that country, both winter and summer. An EV is much, much more poorly equipped for these types of environments. They were lucky I trawled for people on those roads (it was a hobby), they may not have been found for days. tl;dr: high ground clearance and robust reliable range are serious safety features in the mountain west. Lack of it may find you stranded for days in difficult survival environments. Same reason I also carry ample water when driving through the same areas, just in case.

SEJeff 3y ago
> You can find a road impassable because EVs almost universally have poor ground clearance. Define: "poor ground clearance" Tesla Model 3: 5.2" Tesla Model S: 5-7" (in has a manually adjustable pneumatic suspension) Ford F150: 8-9.5" You can get bigger wheels for bigger clearances and you can also obviously put snow chains on Teslas as well. As of September 2023, 11.05% of new vehicle registrations in Colorado were electric. It has a lot of both mountains and snow. It depends on the specific model and how cold, but a Tesla generally speaking can keep the heat on for ~72 hours or so if it is not moving in the cold. I lived in Chicago and survived three polar vortexes (the worst was -22F in front of my house) and my Tesla did just fine.
- jandrewrogers 3y ago
  You are confused if you conflate chains with ground clearance. They are not fungible. If your sole frame of reference is “snow” and cold weather then you don’t understand the problem. 5 inches of ground clearance is a joke in many areas. There is a reason people religiously buy Subarus with almost 9 inches of ground clearance. It isn’t negotiable if you actually understand the problem. My minimum requirement for ground clearance for many years, and based on real-world experience, is 8 inches. I’ve owned vehicles with less and more, and used all in less than ideal circumstances re: ground clearance. The last time I had a vehicle with ground clearance as low as a Tesla, it wasn’t great for the vehicle, and I have a lot of experience navigating those conditions to minimize damage. Just because it never has applied to you, clearly, doesn’t mean it isn’t a real problem.
  - SEJeff 3y ago
    Chains are for snow. They’ve got nothing to do with clearance. You mentioned unplowed roads. If that also includes mountains you tend to use chain. Get over yourself buddy. The level of arrogance is astounding.
    - blahedo 3y ago
      > Chains are for snow. They’ve got nothing to do with clearance. Yes, and you were the one who mentioned chains in response to clearance issues. GP was asked to provide examples, and did. That's not arrogance.