4 ms·

Drugs? Contraband? Tax evasion? Insider trading? Industrial espionage? Any process crime like "lying to a fed"? If you think about it, we have tons of laws tha

by smsm42 3y ago

Drugs? Contraband? Tax evasion? Insider trading? Industrial espionage? Any process crime like "lying to a fed"? If you think about it, we have tons of laws that don't fit into the mold of "hurting specific people" - which would definitely be "black morality" to me - but are more of either "preserving the system as it is" or even "we said it's illegal and so it is". I'm not saying none of those should exist, but I definitely would be willing to look onto some of it as a morally "gray area".

kridsdale1 3y ago
It could be “allowed a very hardy and aggressive weed to grow in an area of his property”.
throwup238 3y ago
I agree, I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. The only item on your list that I would say is mostly gray area is insider trading - the rest are very much case dependent. A weed dealer might be gray area but someone who peddles crack cocaine is not. Most people like to think they are good, even when presented with hard evidence that they’re not.
- SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
  > I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. I wouldn't trust a single human to be objective about the morality of their actions
- phpisthebest 3y ago
  Why is a weed dealer a gray area but cocaine not a gray area both are things people are consuming voluntarily into their own body why is one prohibited from consuming cocaine of their own volition but not marijuana I'm of the position it all drugs even medical drugs should be free to consume by anybody I should be able to walk in to CVS and get heart medication if I want or cocaine if I want if CVS is willing to sell it to me it's not for the government to decide nor government licensed agents AKA doctors to decide what I consume into my own body My body my choice
  - throwup238 3y ago
    I didn’t just say cocaine, I said crack cocaine. Crack is cooked by the dealers to be a cheaper and more addictive form of cocaine. I saw first hand what it did to LA in the back half of the last century, so yeah “your body your choice” or whatever you want to tell yourself, but the people dealing it knew what they were doing and it was blatantly immoral. There was no “gray area” about it. They invented a more profitable formula and destroyed their communities to make a little more cash.
  - aghastnj 3y ago
    I agree with you on the "my choice" part. But I also believe that things which remove your choice from the equation are worth extra trouble. Addictive substances are well established as a hazard not just to the individual, but to society. So I think government has an interest in avoiding/preventing/restricting addiction.
  - CodeSgt 3y ago
    Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. The citizens of communities ravaged by addiction all suffer, whether they individually consume the drug or not. The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. No, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adults smoking a joint after work or on the weekends if that’s what they choose to do, but it quickly devolves from there.
    - phpisthebest 3y ago
      >>>Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. Sorry no... This is 3rd party Liability and that can not be the basis for a free society, as at that point everything becomes regulated Want to go back to Alcohol Prohibition as well? Further The Father is also free to choose a job where he makes less money that would impact the "little girl" in negative ways, or may choose to tell off his boss and get fired, will you now regulate speech "for the children" >>The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. Victimless crime is defined for First Party victimization, to most people 3rd party liability is not a thing, Ford is not responsible if someone kills someones else in a F150, A Gun Manufacturer is not responsible when someone kills someone with a gun... The victims of those crimes are victim of the PERSON that victimized them, the driver or murder Drug abuse can lead to other crimes, such as theft, and the victims of those crimes are victims of the drug user. However you can not have a free society if you start shifting the liability upstream, at that point you get in a Pre Crime laws (which is what Drug laws are) and you end up with a whole negative effect and tyranny

by smsm42 3y ago

kridsdale1 3y ago

It could be “allowed a very hardy and aggressive weed to grow in an area of his property”.

throwup238 3y ago

I agree, I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. The only item on your list that I would say is mostly gray area is insider trading - the rest are very much case dependent. A weed dealer might be gray area but someone who peddles crack cocaine is not. Most people like to think they are good, even when presented with hard evidence that they’re not.

SturgeonsLaw 3y ago
> I just wouldn’t trust a felon to make an unbiased determination about the morality of their actions. I wouldn't trust a single human to be objective about the morality of their actions
phpisthebest 3y ago
Why is a weed dealer a gray area but cocaine not a gray area both are things people are consuming voluntarily into their own body why is one prohibited from consuming cocaine of their own volition but not marijuana I'm of the position it all drugs even medical drugs should be free to consume by anybody I should be able to walk in to CVS and get heart medication if I want or cocaine if I want if CVS is willing to sell it to me it's not for the government to decide nor government licensed agents AKA doctors to decide what I consume into my own body My body my choice
- throwup238 3y ago
  I didn’t just say cocaine, I said crack cocaine. Crack is cooked by the dealers to be a cheaper and more addictive form of cocaine. I saw first hand what it did to LA in the back half of the last century, so yeah “your body your choice” or whatever you want to tell yourself, but the people dealing it knew what they were doing and it was blatantly immoral. There was no “gray area” about it. They invented a more profitable formula and destroyed their communities to make a little more cash.
- aghastnj 3y ago
  I agree with you on the "my choice" part. But I also believe that things which remove your choice from the equation are worth extra trouble. Addictive substances are well established as a hazard not just to the individual, but to society. So I think government has an interest in avoiding/preventing/restricting addiction.
- CodeSgt 3y ago
  Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. The citizens of communities ravaged by addiction all suffer, whether they individually consume the drug or not. The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. No, I don’t think there’s anything wrong with adults smoking a joint after work or on the weekends if that’s what they choose to do, but it quickly devolves from there.
  - phpisthebest 3y ago
    >>>Highly addictive drugs destroy lives and families. The little girl who’s father has a heroin addiction sure didn’t get any say in his choice, but she’s affected by it. Sorry no... This is 3rd party Liability and that can not be the basis for a free society, as at that point everything becomes regulated Want to go back to Alcohol Prohibition as well? Further The Father is also free to choose a job where he makes less money that would impact the "little girl" in negative ways, or may choose to tell off his boss and get fired, will you now regulate speech "for the children" >>The idea that drug use is a victimless crime is patently false and all it takes is a few moments of thought to realize it. Victimless crime is defined for First Party victimization, to most people 3rd party liability is not a thing, Ford is not responsible if someone kills someones else in a F150, A Gun Manufacturer is not responsible when someone kills someone with a gun... The victims of those crimes are victim of the PERSON that victimized them, the driver or murder Drug abuse can lead to other crimes, such as theft, and the victims of those crimes are victims of the drug user. However you can not have a free society if you start shifting the liability upstream, at that point you get in a Pre Crime laws (which is what Drug laws are) and you end up with a whole negative effect and tyranny